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[QUOTE]Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Booohahaha
as far as i know its only illegal in the US. not in canada hahaha
[/q

The laws are worse in canada too..here we cannot change the cat untill the car is at least 8 years old..unless it is replaced with an OEM cat..as well..so unless you use the OEM cat..all swaps are illegal

 
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Dang. Hehe. I have been reading this since it first opened. But since I don't really know a whole lot about the mechanics behind cars I did not want to post anything. But I have to say, this story has been better than most of the movies I have seen in the last year. There is adversity, triumph, personal satisfaction. All this needs a hot girl and it has the makings of a summer blockbuster. Anyways, I was thinking to this swap myself. But since right now my car is exactly the way i drove it off the showroom 9 months ago, I doubt I will get this kind of money. Does anyone know why Honda doesn't release a rear-wheel drive car? I want to get a CL Type-S, but it seems like such a waste on a front drive car.

 
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S2K is RWD.......

 
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ok ok. i forgot about the S2K. But as far as I am concerned, that does not really lend itself well to the market. sure it is a totally tight engine and everything. But I sat in one and it felt like it wasn't made for white people. I am not all that fat and only 5'11" and I felt CRAMPED. I don't think an NSX will be in my price range any time soon either. I guess i kind of grew up in the suburbs, but for the most part everything I heard about was RWD. I just think that so many cars would perform better if RWD. I know that there is less HP lost to friction since there doesn't need to be a drive shaft all the way to the back. But unless my physics is screwed up, everything you seem to gain from that is lost in having all that wieght pressing down on the drive wheels. Traction is greatly improved, but at the cost of large amounts of stress working against momentum. The only way I can see to beat it is some kinda crazy hybrid. Something that is front mid-ship like the infinity G35, but at the same time front-wheel drive. and in all honesty, that would creep me out.

 
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htown: where did you originally pick up the new engine?

So total cost of the swap, including all those extra parts they had to order, would be around $2000 + $1000 = $3000, correct?

 
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If there's a 7thgen meet on Westheimer, I'll probably be there. All of the Houston guys are getting together a week before the big Texas meet (which will be in Austin on July 20) to hang out and to make some runs at Houston Raceway Park. Provided my car is ready and I have it back in Houston, I'll be going to all of the meets and pre-meets. Check the South forum threads for more info.

 
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I bought the motor kit from Greenleaf Auto (Fort Worth, TX branch). The employee whom I dealt with exclusively was Mark Dovell (mdovell@greenleafauto.com). He was a pretty cool guy to deal with, considering I was still calling him 2-3 months after I bought the engine/tranny to ask for miscellaneous parts such as the shift linkage (they had originally forgotten to take the shift linkage out and luckily the car hadn't been compacted yet) and the immobilizer (by the time we realized we needed, this the car had already been trashed so we had to buy a new one from Honda). Greenleaf has locations all over the U.S. and even a few in Canada; they've got a warehouse in Houston so I didn't have to pay for shipping from Dallas/Ft. Worth to Houston.

The cost of the labor I originally negotiated with Jeff back in February was $2000. At that time neither of us had any idea what extra parts and what kind of labor or timeframe we were looking at. Jeff said that although $2000 was a bit high, this swap had never been done before, and if it turned out this swap could be completed quickly and easily then the cost of labor would be a lot less.

Well after all the stuff IB has had to go through to figure out and perform the swap, I seriously doubt they will charge less than what we originally agreed upon. So it looks like I'll be paying the agreed-upon $2k for labor (IB isn't the type of shop to screw me over and all of a sudden and demand $3000). But the cost of the extra parts ($700 of subframe parts at wholesale cost, $100 for the immobilizer, another couple of hundred for an axle) works out to around $1000.

 
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Thanks for the info, htown.

How much did the K20a2 itself cost?

 
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I think he said somewhere around 5500 i belive

 
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Damn, when you add that to the $3000+ for labor and parts, that's a pretty steep price tag... not to mention the time involved and the risk of problems cropping up later.

Like someone just said before, I totally respect the risk and patience you're going through to pull this off... you're probably making a bit of history here to be the first one to do it.

But when you look at the whole picture, it's probably a lot safer and cheaper just to sell your Civic and buy a brand new RSX-S: you get brand new K20A2 engine, and as a bonus, you also get the RSX shell that comes with it.

But again, this is ground-breaking stuff, htown. Props to you for going through with it ... [IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG]

 
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Actually when you factor in the price of my Civic ($15k), the amount of money I'm spending is about the same price as a new Type S w/no options ($24k). I just wanted to keep my Civic because I already had the entire suspension (wheels, tires, struts, coilovers), shortshifter, Mugen shift ****, exhaust, etc. configured just the way I like it and I love the way it handles.

The age and mileage of the motor isn't too much of a concern. The engine has less than 4000 miles on it and still has the factory oil filter on it, which means the owner probably hasn't even done the initial oil change yet. In other words, it's basically brand new and just broken in. I guess a new factory warranty from Honda/Acura would be nice, but Greenleaf does warranty the motor kit for 6 months from the date of purchase (which means I have about 1.5-2 months left on the Greenleaf warranty). Besides, with the way I drive, my new Acura warranty would probably last me 7-8 months at the most; I used up my Civic's 30k mile warranty after 6 months (my old engine has 32,000 miles on it).

Waiting 2 months for your car isn't so bad, it's just the uncertainty not knowing WHEN and IF you will get your car back that is so nerve-wracking. When I first dropped my car off, I was hoping it would be done within a few weeks but was prepared to wait a month at the most (LOL). At this stage in the swap, we are almost positively certain that it will be finished within a week or two. Jeff says that the car should done either right after 4th of July or the week after, and he doesn't foresee any problems with the wiring that would add any more delays. That's what he told me and I'm just keeping my fingers crossed.

I certainly learned a lot during the past few months about: my Civic, the K-series engine, motor swaps, and how the performance auto industry operates. I don't regret doing this swap at all... I figure when all is done I'll have the best of both worlds - the powerplant I want w/the body shell and car styling that I've fallen in love with.

Whoever is the next person to do this swap will almost certainly have an easier time and won't have to wait as long as I did. Hopefully the price of labor will go way down, but right now I have no idea what price IB would charge for this swap if they were asked to do it again.

I have to admit - I realize that the path I chose was definitely not the most practical way to obtain an RSX Type S. The 'gee whiz' factor was certainly a big motivation for this swap. For the longest time, all of us on 7thgencivic were making wild speculations about swapping a K20A2 into our cars. So when the opportunity presented itself, I decided to go out on a limb and do it. I figured that was the only way to really find out the truth and put an end to all of the myths/rumors/nonsense that were floating around.

So hopefully everyone learned a whole lot from this experience. Or at least had a good laugh at my expense [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] But seriously, this whole swap has been a fine example of how sharing info and helping each other can bring good results. There would be no swap if Neo had not posted a link to the eBay auction, and I would never have considered bringing my car all the way to Cali if delacampos had not posted a msg about ImportBuilders. Everyone has been great in giving support and pitching in ideas (even if I didn't get get to use all of them... sorry Simkin for not being able to get the JDM LSD + tranny).

This msg is getting pretty lengthy, so I'll wrap it up here. I will give IB a call on Monday again to see if we're still on track.

 
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Hey have you guys noticed that occasionally a post will not show up? But it will still show you as the last poster of the thread? I just finished posting a long *** reply that I don't feel like typing over again. Dammit that thing better show up!

 
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I had to change the URL from .......STARTPAGE=7 to 8, but it still shows up. Kinda weird......

 
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Yeah I'll let you guys know a few days in advance when I'll be in LA to pick the car up. Jeff is going to give the car a test drive to make sure everything is working ok, and I imagine that I'll be spending some time cruising around the city until I'm confident the car isn't going to fall apart on my trip back to Houston.

There are some personal matters I have to attend to in both LA and SF (meeting old friends/coworkers, picking up those CD's), but I'll be sure to set aside some time to get together with the SoCal or NoCal folks who want to meet up. And sorry, but no street racing/speed exhibitions for me, especially being 2000 miles away from home. I'll probably push the car into VTEC just to make sure everything is working ok, but that's about it.

 
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htown, I got my Type S for 24,6 otd with OEM kit.

Most ppl are getting out the door for $22k~22,5 no options.

 
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That's a good sign then - dealers are finally starting to back down from the MSRP. I remember about half a year ago dealers in Houston were even marking it $2-3k over MSRP (!)

 
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Around here in SoCal , a brand new Type S with no options are going for $24,000. They are freaking hard to find down here, because the dealerships here know people want them, so they only order them at a time, put them in the show room and let it sell itself in mere hours.

They had a used Type S (return-leased) going for $22,995 w/ 10,000 miles.

Ray

 
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if it was a white Type s it was Mine....

 
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and you went from an RSX to a Civic why?

 
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The Type S has had allot of issues, well not unless you drive like an old lady.
I have various issues, such as. It just would not start at ALL for no reason, after a hard drive it would start
But it would I would have to have the gas peddle all the way to the floor and it would barely Idling at like 1,200 RMP
and it sounds more like a V8 running on 5 cylinders. and the oil burning issues, about 1-3 Qrts every 3000 miles
so I went to the Honda dealer and they got me out of the Acura

 
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sounds like you either didnt break it in right or got a lemon...ive heard plenty of horror stories from ppl on crsx who failed to break there car in properly with the same issues you mention. Tough break either way.

 
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just wanted to subscirbe to the thread...

peace [IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG]

 
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that happened to me too, i tried posting twice because it wasnt showing up

oh well it works now [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

 
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many props for doing the swap!!!! and props to ray for the pics!!!!

i think it's great that you're doing the swap... your car will be custom and one of a kind... i'll meet up with you when you pick up the car... i should have my paint job done by then too..

Now i really can't wait to build my turbo.. if you can make a K series motor fit... i can make a T25 turbo work!!!!!!

 
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We're going to have to wait a bit longer for this thing to finish up. IB still hasn't received the one remaining motor mount, although it should arrive any day now. After they get the mount, it's going to take about 2 days of welding to get it to fit. It will be a trial-and-error process to get the motor to sit correctly. The first time they put it in, it will be a bit crooked. And it will take a few more tries until they get it right. Jeff says this is the exact same process people had to go through about 5 years ago when swapping a Prelude engine into a Civic (there were no ready-made motor mounts for the H22A swap back then).

He assures me that everything else they need to do is mapped out and ready to go, it's just that welding the mount in and getting the motor to sit correctly is going to be a laborious process. If the motor wires up ok and fires up correctly, then we hope to finish sometime in late July (earliest I would say is probably the 21st).

Actually I probably shouldn't even give a date - because based on our past experiences every 'completion date' we set has been missed. It probably isn't a good idea to pick a date and get our hopes up and then be disappointed time and time again. IB is working 7-day weeks and they definitely haven't been lagging. When you're doing pioneering work on something that no one has done before, it's extremely difficult to say with certainty exactly how long everything is going to take.

I've been patient for the past 2+ months, I'm willing to be patient for a little bit longer to make sure they do everything right.

 
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[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG]


it will be worth it

 
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htowncivicEX:

I'm sure you will be happy with the end result. I just wish there was more tech's with dedication (such as the people your dealing with) out here on the east coast.

Since the K20 only has about 4G'z worth of miles on it, is it still under warranty by Acura/Honda? (I know you were past 30,000 on your original engine and passed the warranty period for the old engine).

Thanks for keeping us posted on your whole experience through this!

- DonJuan

 
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Who was going to make mounts for our car? and where could i get them?

 
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There is a zero chance Honda will warranty my hybrid Civic. For one thing, my Civic chassis has more than 30,000 miles on it. Second, there is no way they are going to warranty a swapped engine in a different chassis.

 
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I think HASport was reportedly coming out for motor mounts for the K20A2 swap sometim esoon.