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I think the bottom line is a that a car is not worth your life or taking a chance on it. I love my car and all but I have insurance as pretty much all of us driving new cars with liens do. I may try to get his attention so he knows someone is watching but it would be from pretty far away. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

 
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Very True QuickSilver,
But I too am trained in Apprehension and the Use of Deadly Force, I was Head of Security for a US Navy Nuclear Submarine. I recently got out of the military. I am also trained for Close Quarters Combat and also a trained EMT. I know that it is wrong to use my skills to fight back but I just get sick & tired of these thieves (usually Young Kids) becoming more brave & becoming veteran thieves (breaking and entering/convience store robberies). If, Car enthusiates like us, can instill fear into these young thieves then they will probably turn away from thievery or at least take away some rights of these thieves while they are committing a crime. I don't mind if police Beat the LIVING $HIT out of THIEVES because that will instill fear into the young thief.
MBOW, you do have a point of insurance too. But I pay about $1,200 in car insurance for my car a month. I asked the insurance people why is it so high. They state the about 30 to 40% go towards stole vehicle repayment. If we can stop thieves from stealing cars then car insurance should go lower.
If you asked yourself, who is stealing most of our cars? Young Thieves, if it was a true car thief, they wouldn't give a care about Honda/Acura, they would go after Porshes, Vipers, Corvettes, etc (High priced cars) not our low price cars.
So all I have to say is:

THIEVES ARE PIECES OF $HIT and MUST ALL DIE IN THE PITS OF HELL!
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Yea smash his head on all 8 window pieces and then put each of his fingers in a beer bottle and snap them all.

Gonna get hooked up with this new alarm soon, has a pager system that pages you within 10-15 secs and tells u exactly which
pin was triggered. Has a 500 meter range so it's pretty far.

But the way i see it is if a thief wants to steal your car, he can do it no matter what type of gadgets you got.

 
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Umm.. I think I'm gonna have to pull out the BS flag NucRacer. Your logic just doesn't add up. You say you were head of security on a Navy Sub? Now don't get me wrong, I'm no military expert, but doesn't that take some time to get to head of security in the Navy? I always thought head of security was someone way up there in the ranks. You also said you are a Trained EMT and you just got out of the military. To get that type of traning and knowledge I would assume that you are 40+, but then you said you pay $1,200/month in insurance???? Now that tells me that your are an irresponsible teen with several tickets! No way is any insurance company gonna charge $1,200/month for insurance on a sub $20,000 car, for your average driver. I'm 23 with no tickets (1 for a stop sign when I was 16) and I pay $103/month for full coverage with State Farm. And then your whole attitude and demeanor tell me that your a young kid. That and the fact that you don't see too many older people with 2k1/2k2 Civics....especially modded ones also tell me that your a younger person (25or under like most of us) that and language that you are using certainly doesn't represent one of a military specialist and an EMT. If you were indeed head of security then you obviously would have some sort of tolerance for misbehavior (that is your job) but yet you give the impression because some young kid is breaking into your car, you should beat the S!@# out of them. No wonder your not in the military any more. My guess... your about 21 joined the Navy when you were 18 working in the kitchen and served your 3 years. After all..... what kind of security do you really need on a sub? Do you normally have a problem with people sneaking on board?

Your ingorance also leads me to believe you aren't being trutful. You said a true car theif would not waste time on our cars. Sorry to say, but you are wrong. Why do you think that Honda Accords, Civics and Camry's are always at the top of the list. They are all over the place!!! A true car thief learns to steal one car and does a good job at it. Now if a Viper is missing your gonna notice it driving down the road.. but if a Civic is stolen, its going to blend in with the over 2,000 Civics in town. Civics are also a hot car to steal because of chop shops and parts.. you blow your engine.. go steal a civic, ****** the engine and ditch the car. But A security expert such as yourself would have known why that. I wanna see you steal a Porsche 911 and drive it through town without being noticed.

 
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Kevin, while I didn't post anything initially, after reading your post, I noticed that you and I noticed the exact same things. I'm not doubting what NucRacer says one bit, however, $1200 a month for insurance is really really expensive. I'm 22, never had any tickets or accidents, and my monthly amount is a little higher than yours, but only because I have more than one vehicle on the policy. $1200 a month comes out to $14400, that's super expensive. I'm assuming he meant to say $1200 per 6 months? I pay every 6 months...I also concurr with you in that Civics are a heavily stolen car...as are any other Honda, Toyota, Lexus, etc., just ask any insurance agent. The parts alone can be sold for a lot of money. I was never in the military, but police work is para-military, so I can somewhat gage if someone is actually that field. As far as being trained in the use of force, like Kevin and I both pointed out, committing aggravated assault (serious injury) on someone simply trying to break into a car might not be justified.....While I might have my hand on my firearm, I couldn't fire it just because someone is trying to take my car. Similarly, I can't bash someones head in if I observe them break my window. Like I have been saying all along, dialing 911 right away will probably result in a better outcome as opposed to handling it yourself...

Just my two cents.

 
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Well KevinFWB,
If you want to know about security just check out the Security on a Nuclear Submarine that is Nuclear Missile Capable or called a SSBN, it is very difficult to get onto and take over one of those (unless your a Special Ops Team). And yes I was the head of security for my Sub that the Commanding Officer would go too. I was a 2nd Class Weaponery (Enlisted not Officer) onboard the SSBN, I wasn't truely in charge of the program of the Navy but I was in charge for the submarine that I was stationed on. I am qualified to use an assortment of items.
I am also trained as one of the members of the EMT force onboard, I do have a national registration # but why would i care to put it on this forum for identity thieves to go and use it against me.
For the tolerance, your right I don't have the restrain towards punk kids because they have no excuss in breaking into someone elses property and stealing it for their profit; someone works hard to get what they want and a punk kid just wants to get it for the parts, car, etc. Then I would beat the living $hit out of the kid to instill fear on to him and his other punk friends so they get the message if you try to steal this car you will get hurt.
The reason why I got out because you don't make money and you don't get to be with your family when you want too. THat is the reason why I got out with an Honorable Discharge. For the part about the insurance, it depends on where you live, for myself, (Seattle/Tacoma area) has had a rash of cars stolen so the insurance is high here. Maybe were you live you don't have to pay that much. I am sorry for the miss typing, it is $1,200 a year or $120 a month.

 
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Well, I can see that this is a go-nowhere conversation. You went from being the "Head of Security" on a nuclear sub, to a "go-to" person for the commanding officer. You went from a "Trained EMT" to a first aid responder. Heck, I took Medica First Responder when I was in the police acadamy, can I call myself an EMT too? I'm not doubting you were in fact on a nuclear sub, but you severly distorted your job details and position. And being an armed guard on a sub does not constitute a high profile position, but rather a security guard. You made is sound as if you were a high ranking, combat trained, military specialist but yet, you got out because you made no money..... figure that one out. As far as your insurance is concerned, a little math lesson $1,200 a year / does not equal $120 a month.

 
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Deadly force.....oohhhh...how about he just pulls a gun and shoots you before you ever even get close. It's just now worth it. Hmmm...someone is stealing my car, yea I think it's worth the risk even though I may end up dead! I can assume that the people are saying this are 18 years of age.

 
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vheres what i would do. first take photo graph or film it for a few second as evidence. then call the cops. then take a crowbar or a bat. then knock the bastard unconciuos then tie him up. or u can just do a karate chop to render them unconcious and tie them up. and ur all set. sue his *** for vandalism@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
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And the subject you hit with the crowbar or bat could successfully sue you and win. You can't use force if you (or a third party) is not in danger of serious physical injury or death...so, if you are gung ho in using force, you had better be able to prove that you felt threatened, which may not be that hard to do.

Mbow...I went to one of the, if not the longest police academy in the United States and am currently a full-time police officer for a major county police department of a suburb of New York City. While I would certainly intervene if I thought someone was trying to steal my car (or anyone elses, for that matter) I certainly know when I am permitted to use deadly force or any force for that matter to stop individuals in the commission of a crime. BTW, I would highly doubt that an idiot trying to steal a car could get his gun out and shoot me faster then I could shoot back...I doubt he attended a 7 month police academy which included countless hours of firearm training...but you do offer an excellent point for people to leave these matters up to the cops to avoid getting shot...so I agree on that.

 
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OK...You are right KEVINFWD..This is going nowhere.
In a Nuclear Submarine there are Armed Security and there is a Head Security Person, which I was, I trained, educated, and developed senarios for the sub, for any situation, including Hostage taking. I was taught to shoot first (or act) then ask questions because this involed items of higher importance than our lives.
For the First Responder; they do not have a nationaly resgistration Number? You can go to your local fire department and get trained for that easily. For an EMT which is different than a first responder, cause I have both, EMT/First Responder, you have to go to a 3 month course with training in a hospital and OJT then you still have continue your training with refresher courses and OJT at the hospital.
And finally for the math question part, I'm sorry that I'm not perfect like you. Perfection equals IGNORANCE.
Here are a few question for you?
How you solve this rash of Car Thieves throughout american?
How would you stop young thieves graduating into veteran thieves?
Answer me these questions?

TO QCKSILVER:
What is the Term Deadly Force meant to you and when would you use it? PM me the answer because I will PM you maybe two additional points that you may not.
How would you solve the rash of car thiefs in american and how would you push the young thieves when caught?

MBOW:
Ask QCKSILVER if I'm lying but I think this is probably the answer and example.
There is more to deadly force then just shooting the guy with a gun. You can be cited for using deadly force, if you use more force necessary to subdue an individual. Here is an example:
If You were a cop and a little old lady started arguing with you and she pulls out her knitting needles and threatens you. You don't pull out your gun and start shooting. First you would talk, if that didnt' help then call backup. If she started after you with the needles then you can go up the use of Deadly force by using pepper spray/mace and if she continues to threaten your life, you are allowed to use the highest means, your weapon. But you are not allowed just to pump your whole clip into the person, you are only allowed to use your weapon to bring down the person not kill him, that is why the police are trained to shoot center of mass, no head shots. If head shots are used then that is excessive use of Deadly force and that is why most criminals get away with suing the police department, if they live or by their families.

I do respect everyone opinions because this is what I protected when I was in the Military, SELF Expression of opinions.
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ATTN: NucRacer
I think that you are very mislead in your laws and interpertations of them. There are not "several" levels of deadly force. Hence the word DEADly. Beating someone with a crow bar or a bat, in the eyes of the law, is no different then shooting them with your side arm. Like quicksilver, I also went through a 9-month long police acadamy. Although his was probably an "on campus" type of thing, I went to classes 6-days a week and went home at the end of the night. Cops are NOT trained to shoot to wound. If you pull the trigger and your gun you damn well have had just cause to KILL that individual. Cops are taught to shoot center mass for 2 reasons. 1 that's where all the body's vital organs are and 2. Is simply a bigger target that moves around less. In general a gun is held to no higher standard than any other weapon. That is, if I shoot you in your leg or smack you with a bat, it carries the same charge. Battery with a deadly weapon, not battery with a gun!! And you answer to my solution to crack down on the ring of car thieves, that's simple. Our legal system is a joke. As you stated yourself, thieves generally graduate from one level of crime to another. They usually don't start out stealing cars. They generally start with something smaller, build confidence in themselves, and progress into higher levels of crime. You think the people that cops deal with on a regular basis are first time offenders? Especially the ones that break into cars and steal them? NOPE. If our legal system would enforce the laws that they envoke, there would be less crime. In general of a person breaks into a car and steals your radio and that is their 1st offense what happens to them? In Florida that is breaking 2 laws, (1) Burglary-breaking into a home of dwelling (car, boat, etc..) with criminal intent. Yes breaking into a car is no different than a home, since your car is considered an exntension of your house and the (2) crime is grand theft (assuming that your equipment is worth more than $200. Now the punishment for each are felony offenses and carry a maximum sentence of 5-years in prison. But what does that person get.. about 20hrs of community service and 6-months probation. That's a joke, some kid breaks into a car and gets 20hours of yard work somewhere and has to go see a probation officer a few times a month for 6 months. Now, if we made this 16 year old kid go to a juvenile detention center for a year or so, you think the first thing he is going to do when he gets out is break into a car? He's gonna think long and hard before he does something stupid again. So in summary, the answer to your question on how to reduce the number of car theives, is STRICTER PUNISHMENT.. make them pay for the crime that they have commited. Our society has a habit of letting the "small ones go". If you enforce the punishment on the small crimes to begin with, they won't even want to know what happens to them for larger crimes.

 
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Ok, you guys all rule. I'm serious, any one with the ***** to be a Police Officer or something similar kicks ***. I admire all of you from behind my wussy desk. Keep it up!![IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
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Thanks!

 
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if someone jacked my car
i wouldnt mind as long as they get rid of it LOL
insurence would pay me back and i could get newer stuff!

 
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<< [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG]
So, when the police arrive I can state that it was self defense because in America, A Thief has more rights then the Good Citizen, and to me that is BULL$HIT[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG]
Thieves to me have no rights except to lose the ability to use their hands normally ever again.

ANY THIEVES OUT THERE YOU CAN KISS MY [IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG] A$$!! >>




I couldn't agree with you any more....
All a thief gets is a criminal record which prevents them from getting any descent job (if they're even convicted) which causes them to have no money & to resort to stealing more. I have a job typing criminal records all day, so I know.

 
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I'd shoot them with my G17, and drag them in the house, throw down my unregistered gun next to them, make sure their prints where on the gun and say they broke in the house !![IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

Not really. I'd probably just kick the $hit out of him and send him home. What's he going to do, call the cops and say I assaulted him while trying to steal my car??

 
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LOL, if he really wanted to yes. He could call the cops. And yes, he would get arrested for breaking into your car (you think he cares) and you would get arrested for beating the shiznits out of him. And then he has an excellent lawsuit against you... Hope you have money and welcome to the US Legal System.