?honda civic sux!?
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Some people are in Civic denial.
A SRT-4 is so much better from an engine perspective. Let's face it, the Civic is underpowered for "performance." So quit ragging on the SRT-4 cus' you're bitter that your Civic doesn't have as much power as one.
I like my civic cus' it drives spritely, is reliable, drives pleasant. You don't spend $13,000 on a car and expect it to run like it'll win in a 24 hour LeMans after bolt-ons mods.
You want competitive racing performance for compact cars, you bought the wrong car. Go buy a SVT Focus, SRT-4, RSX, WRX, or Celica GT.
People trying to somehow say the Civic is superior to the SRT-4's a losing race. People roll their eyes and say "it's still a neon." Well guess what, your civic with the oversized muffler is still an econo-civic.
The civic, like the very name implies, was meant for everyday driving. Practicality. Reliability. Just because Super Street or Honda Tuning Magazine portrays the civic as some potential hot rod doesn't mean that it is.
Most of you who complain sound like your parents bought the car for you, because if you bought the car yourself, you wouldn't be lamenting why it's not a sports car - you would've known.
-Aki
A SRT-4 is so much better from an engine perspective. Let's face it, the Civic is underpowered for "performance." So quit ragging on the SRT-4 cus' you're bitter that your Civic doesn't have as much power as one.
I like my civic cus' it drives spritely, is reliable, drives pleasant. You don't spend $13,000 on a car and expect it to run like it'll win in a 24 hour LeMans after bolt-ons mods.
You want competitive racing performance for compact cars, you bought the wrong car. Go buy a SVT Focus, SRT-4, RSX, WRX, or Celica GT.
People trying to somehow say the Civic is superior to the SRT-4's a losing race. People roll their eyes and say "it's still a neon." Well guess what, your civic with the oversized muffler is still an econo-civic.
The civic, like the very name implies, was meant for everyday driving. Practicality. Reliability. Just because Super Street or Honda Tuning Magazine portrays the civic as some potential hot rod doesn't mean that it is.
Most of you who complain sound like your parents bought the car for you, because if you bought the car yourself, you wouldn't be lamenting why it's not a sports car - you would've known.
-Aki
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From: sacramento, California, US
Rep Power: 0 lol whatever i bet a lot of people on the site fall into these catagories
- bought there civic thinking it was fast
-bought the civic and honestly thought they could make it fast
-think there civics fast
i love my civic because its a daily driver NUFF SAID
as for a show car this is my style , that car plus a few grand invested is hydros , candy paint ect ect is my plan. props to you few who modded there civic without being a ricer .
- bought there civic thinking it was fast
-bought the civic and honestly thought they could make it fast
-think there civics fast
i love my civic because its a daily driver NUFF SAID
as for a show car this is my style , that car plus a few grand invested is hydros , candy paint ect ect is my plan. props to you few who modded there civic without being a ricer .
um our civics can be made fast..just add some beefier internals and add a 100hp of nitrous or turbo and bam..I've seen a bunch of civics with 250hp engines and a few 300+ engines that are our generation cars.hell as far as im concernd,if you put some good suspension on and beef up the engine and get a good 240hp goin you'll be just as fast as a Subaru STI and for about the same price.Except I would feel alot more pride in building up a car then going out and buying asubaru with the power already there...thats how I feel on the matter!
and yeah my civic is still bone stock,except some painted interior engine pieces and a slammin system
and yeah my civic is still bone stock,except some painted interior engine pieces and a slammin system
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Rep Power: 0 Lets just be real with this. The only reason the MODERN sport compact scene is profitable and sucessful in the U.S. is because of the Honda Civic. The Civic started it all here in the States. Japan is an another issue that I will address later. But What honda didn't do is take the Civic to another Performance level (FROM THE FACTORY). Now you have the Neon SRT, Sentra V-Spec, Celica GT-S, MazdaSpeed Protege, Mazda3 Focus SVT, WRX, WRX STI, Evolution VIII(Which are Rally Cars by nature) and I could go on and on. These companies are profiting big time by the groundwork laid by the Civic. I know the Civic SI came from the factory but Honda actually put it's best Civic motor in the Acura RSX and TSX(Which is really an Accord Type R). I'm still confused as to why Honda didn't also put the SI motor in the Civic Coupe.
But My point is that even though you can give a Civic Big horsepower by supercharging, nitrous, intake, exhaust, etc. The Civic doesn't need to be the fastest sport compact out there to earn respect because it already has respect. Just look at the aftermarket. The Civic is still the Gold Standard. And the Executives at Honda know this. There is no incentive sell Civics here in the States with Big Horsepower because the Civic already sells like hotcakes. Honda Salesmen have the easiest job out there because the cars sell themselves. In most cases they don't even have to deal with haggling with potential buyers. Other car companies are releasing their compacts with performance to blow the Civic in the weeds. The reason why they are doing this is because if their cars only had 127 horsepower, the the civic would Sell even more. The other companies had to come up with another hook to get the attention from off the Civic. But the sales numbers don't lie.
Chris
But My point is that even though you can give a Civic Big horsepower by supercharging, nitrous, intake, exhaust, etc. The Civic doesn't need to be the fastest sport compact out there to earn respect because it already has respect. Just look at the aftermarket. The Civic is still the Gold Standard. And the Executives at Honda know this. There is no incentive sell Civics here in the States with Big Horsepower because the Civic already sells like hotcakes. Honda Salesmen have the easiest job out there because the cars sell themselves. In most cases they don't even have to deal with haggling with potential buyers. Other car companies are releasing their compacts with performance to blow the Civic in the weeds. The reason why they are doing this is because if their cars only had 127 horsepower, the the civic would Sell even more. The other companies had to come up with another hook to get the attention from off the Civic. But the sales numbers don't lie.
Chris
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Rep Power: 328 Originally posted by cduone
Lets just be real with this. The only reason the MODERN sport compact scene is profitable and sucessful in the U.S. is because of the Honda Civic. The Civic started it all here in the States. Japan is an another issue that I will address later. But What honda didn't do is take the Civic to another Performance level (FROM THE FACTORY). Now you have the Neon SRT, Sentra V-Spec, Celica GT-S, MazdaSpeed Protege, Mazda3 Focus SVT, WRX, WRX STI, Evolution VIII(Which are Rally Cars by nature) and I could go on and on. These companies are profiting big time by the groundwork laid by the Civic. I know the Civic SI came from the factory but Honda actually put it's best Civic motor in the Acura RSX and TSX(Which is really an Accord Type R). I'm still confused as to why Honda didn't also put the SI motor in the Civic Coupe.
But My point is that even though you can give a Civic Big horsepower by supercharging, nitrous, intake, exhaust, etc. The Civic doesn't need to be the fastest sport compact out there to earn respect because it already has respect. Just look at the aftermarket. The Civic is still the Gold Standard. And the Executives at Honda know this. There is no incentive sell Civics here in the States with Big Horsepower because the Civic already sells like hotcakes. Honda Salesmen have the easiest job out there because the cars sell themselves. In most cases they don't even have to deal with haggling with potential buyers. Other car companies are releasing their compacts with performance to blow the Civic in the weeds. The reason why they are doing this is because if their cars only had 127 horsepower, the the civic would Sell even more. The other companies had to come up with another hook to get the attention from off the Civic. But the sales numbers don't lie.
Chris
Lets just be real with this. The only reason the MODERN sport compact scene is profitable and sucessful in the U.S. is because of the Honda Civic. The Civic started it all here in the States. Japan is an another issue that I will address later. But What honda didn't do is take the Civic to another Performance level (FROM THE FACTORY). Now you have the Neon SRT, Sentra V-Spec, Celica GT-S, MazdaSpeed Protege, Mazda3 Focus SVT, WRX, WRX STI, Evolution VIII(Which are Rally Cars by nature) and I could go on and on. These companies are profiting big time by the groundwork laid by the Civic. I know the Civic SI came from the factory but Honda actually put it's best Civic motor in the Acura RSX and TSX(Which is really an Accord Type R). I'm still confused as to why Honda didn't also put the SI motor in the Civic Coupe.
But My point is that even though you can give a Civic Big horsepower by supercharging, nitrous, intake, exhaust, etc. The Civic doesn't need to be the fastest sport compact out there to earn respect because it already has respect. Just look at the aftermarket. The Civic is still the Gold Standard. And the Executives at Honda know this. There is no incentive sell Civics here in the States with Big Horsepower because the Civic already sells like hotcakes. Honda Salesmen have the easiest job out there because the cars sell themselves. In most cases they don't even have to deal with haggling with potential buyers. Other car companies are releasing their compacts with performance to blow the Civic in the weeds. The reason why they are doing this is because if their cars only had 127 horsepower, the the civic would Sell even more. The other companies had to come up with another hook to get the attention from off the Civic. But the sales numbers don't lie.
Chris
The TSX is NOT an Accord Type R. They share little in common other than the body. Go do some research on the Accord Type R (Euro R) and you'll find that they don't share much in common.
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Rep Power: 0 You are right, I stand corrected, but the facts are that TSX and the 2003 Accord Euro-R have the same body and the same engine.....the 2.0 liter 4 cylinder with 200 horsepower. Just different emblems.
Chris
Chris
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Rep Power: 0 Sales numbers for the Civic could be even higher had they put a better engine in the Civic. I mean the new Si is flat out pathetic, everybody knows it. 20k for a car that's marginally faster than the regular Civic?
Had Honda released a 160-170hp Civic coupe it would've sold like *crazy*. But Honda's trying to stay away from the import racer image, hence their MacPherson struts up front and the lack of a really performance-oriented civic.
They rack up good sales, but sales could've been even better had their marketing and attitude been a little better. They could've just about taken over the segment, but the change in corporate vision screwed that up.
-Aki
Had Honda released a 160-170hp Civic coupe it would've sold like *crazy*. But Honda's trying to stay away from the import racer image, hence their MacPherson struts up front and the lack of a really performance-oriented civic.
They rack up good sales, but sales could've been even better had their marketing and attitude been a little better. They could've just about taken over the segment, but the change in corporate vision screwed that up.
-Aki
i doubt it because most of the people who buy civics arent people like us.they want a good cheap econo car that gets great gas mileage and is reliable.thats what it comes down too.
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Rep Power: 302 Wait..... I want a good cheap econo car that gets great gas mileage and is reliable. But it also looks good, and I made it handle great! Can't get out of second gear on the 405 freeway anyway, so the engine is a moot point.
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Rep Power: 0 Civic's are great cars all around. The can be eco cars or CAN BE MADE FAST if needed. It's a personal choice. But to just say flat out, civic's cannot be made fast. Well. I am thinking no right away!
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Rep Power: 328 Originally posted by cduone
You are right, I stand corrected, but the facts are that TSX and the 2003 Accord Euro-R have the same body and the same engine.....the 2.0 liter 4 cylinder with 200 horsepower. Just different emblems.
Chris
You are right, I stand corrected, but the facts are that TSX and the 2003 Accord Euro-R have the same body and the same engine.....the 2.0 liter 4 cylinder with 200 horsepower. Just different emblems.
Chris
It is hard to say that the Euro-R, CL-7 is same as TSX..
since the engine is different...is close to Accord 2.4S..
however, the whole interior design is different...
our TSX interior is used by JDM New Inspire..
but JDM Accord's interior design is used by North America Accord..
Inspire is the Japanese name for the Accord.
Euro-R has LSD, Race tuned suspension (think Intergra TYpe-R) and is way lighter then the TSX. Euro-R is more track tuned than Street tuned. The TSX is tuned for comfort and street use, where Euro-R is more towad racing.
Take a look at www.clubtsx.com and do some research.
Look here: http://www.acura.com/models/model_pe...asp?module=tsx
Hardly the same stats as the Accord Euro R who has 220 hp and this one has 200 hp.
Last edited by nookiemonster; Dec 31, 2003 at 03:57 PM.
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Rep Power: 328 Originally posted by Anotherslo1
Civic's are great cars all around. The can be eco cars or CAN BE MADE FAST if needed. It's a personal choice. But to just say flat out, civic's cannot be made fast. Well. I am thinking no right away!
Civic's are great cars all around. The can be eco cars or CAN BE MADE FAST if needed. It's a personal choice. But to just say flat out, civic's cannot be made fast. Well. I am thinking no right away!
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Rep Power: 282 As it has been said hundreds if not thousands of times, civics weren't intended to be fast but they do look good.
I feel bad enough though. I got burned by a SRT-4 and an Eclipse GS.
I think the Eclipse was an auto.....I was winning at first though.
I feel bad enough though. I got burned by a SRT-4 and an Eclipse GS.
I think the Eclipse was an auto.....I was winning at first though.
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Rep Power: 0 I would NEVER modify any of my Civics any further than adding some nicer headlights, an OEM lip, some bigger-than-14-inch-steelies, and so on and so forth...I'm sorry, I don't see the point. 
Nothing wrong with adding some style and even lowering the car/adding suspension components to improve handling, but more than that...I just don't get it. I would upgrade my motor when my current one dies (why rebuild when you can improve???), but I wouldn't go out and voluntarily spend the money
When I look for a car I'd like to modify, I think more along the lines of V8 5spd Mustang, 300ZX, RSX, 3000GT...something that already has 200+ hp. I know some people like a challenge, and strive to be different, but I just want a fun car to enjoy and hook up that doesn't start at 130hp. I don't really CARE if it's a car with a better base that responds well to mods, oh no guess I just won't be individualistic with my PRODUCTION vehicle
lease:
So yes, the Civic is an excellent car, I dare say one of the BEST cars ever made
. But no one can say that it is the easiest or cheapest to modify. If someone feels the desire to dump thousands and thousands of dollars just to make it competitive with a reasonably priced car's factory performance, that is a personal choice. However, it is extremely ignorant to think that a Civic will always be slow, or is not capable of fast quarter times. Before I sold my 94 Mustang GT and after adding heads, cam, intake etc, I was SMOKED by an EG silver hatch that ran 12.20s all night long 
It was AWESOME! Would I have invested the money necessary to be that driver? Hells no, but I can respect the effort. 
Nothing wrong with adding some style and even lowering the car/adding suspension components to improve handling, but more than that...I just don't get it. I would upgrade my motor when my current one dies (why rebuild when you can improve???), but I wouldn't go out and voluntarily spend the moneyWhen I look for a car I'd like to modify, I think more along the lines of V8 5spd Mustang, 300ZX, RSX, 3000GT...something that already has 200+ hp. I know some people like a challenge, and strive to be different, but I just want a fun car to enjoy and hook up that doesn't start at 130hp. I don't really CARE if it's a car with a better base that responds well to mods, oh no guess I just won't be individualistic with my PRODUCTION vehicle
lease:So yes, the Civic is an excellent car, I dare say one of the BEST cars ever made
. But no one can say that it is the easiest or cheapest to modify. If someone feels the desire to dump thousands and thousands of dollars just to make it competitive with a reasonably priced car's factory performance, that is a personal choice. However, it is extremely ignorant to think that a Civic will always be slow, or is not capable of fast quarter times. Before I sold my 94 Mustang GT and after adding heads, cam, intake etc, I was SMOKED by an EG silver hatch that ran 12.20s all night long It was AWESOME! Would I have invested the money necessary to be that driver? Hells no, but I can respect the effort. Registered!!
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Unfortunately, the guy took one look at you and decided that you were a waste of his time. I've been to places where they think I'm a complete idiot because I'm a girl, even though I know more about cars than they do.
Just start talking about the car in a technical fashion, ask them pointedly about the car's specs and they usually catch on and drop the "does the wittle girl want to buy a big car?" pretty darn quick If they don't, then they are probably just clueless to begin with! Registered!!
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by aki
People trying to somehow say the Civic is superior to the SRT-4's a losing race. People roll their eyes and say "it's still a neon." Well guess what, your civic with the oversized muffler is still an econo-civic.
People trying to somehow say the Civic is superior to the SRT-4's a losing race. People roll their eyes and say "it's still a neon." Well guess what, your civic with the oversized muffler is still an econo-civic.
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by integrals
Now you must be thinking... wtf integrals! that's 26000 I don't have that money... well, what can I tell ya, hp is not cheap, all you gotta do is use your money wisely, not on bodykits and 747 wings, but on performance parts. Why spend 26000 for a civic instead of getting a rsx or lancer with that money? because rsx or lancer won't give you 12.5 sec with only 26000 spent. (Note that the new high end viper does 12.1 sec in the 1/4).
"But integrals! every time I get money in my hands, I always spent it on the wrong thing! why!" Self control... think! before you get that bodykit or that wing ask yourself... how will this mod imporve my 1/4 mile and is it the best sollution.
Now you must be thinking... wtf integrals! that's 26000 I don't have that money... well, what can I tell ya, hp is not cheap, all you gotta do is use your money wisely, not on bodykits and 747 wings, but on performance parts. Why spend 26000 for a civic instead of getting a rsx or lancer with that money? because rsx or lancer won't give you 12.5 sec with only 26000 spent. (Note that the new high end viper does 12.1 sec in the 1/4).
"But integrals! every time I get money in my hands, I always spent it on the wrong thing! why!" Self control... think! before you get that bodykit or that wing ask yourself... how will this mod imporve my 1/4 mile and is it the best sollution.
But integrals! You are so right! This is why the 04 is staying stock aside from fogs and OEM skirts so the G35 coupe can be in my driveway next year because I refuse to invest $26K and still have a Civic imp: Registered!!
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Originally posted by orion_squall
Talking about handling, I smoked some mustangs on highway curves with stock 4 door civic...well, they tailed me and was being a total *** around my car (passed me, slow down, give me finger, tail me, then pass again repeatly...) so I would not say they were not playing all the sudden, once we both arrived at a curve. That is how I conclude it was an actuel smoke. (poor mustang, should be really ashamed)
But why does civic suppose to have good handling? I thouth it suppose to have so so handling + underpower? being an ecno car? Why civic handle better than mustang which is a sport car? does it make sense?
Talking about handling, I smoked some mustangs on highway curves with stock 4 door civic...well, they tailed me and was being a total *** around my car (passed me, slow down, give me finger, tail me, then pass again repeatly...) so I would not say they were not playing all the sudden, once we both arrived at a curve. That is how I conclude it was an actuel smoke. (poor mustang, should be really ashamed)
But why does civic suppose to have good handling? I thouth it suppose to have so so handling + underpower? being an ecno car? Why civic handle better than mustang which is a sport car? does it make sense?
I'm going to call COMPLETE AND UTTER BS on your claim, Orion
lease: I don't think Mustangs are even close to being the fastest car on the road, especially stock, but pull your head out of your ***. First of all, I am going to call BS on someone harassing you in a stock Civic sedan. I can see if you had a sheetmetal wing and altezzas, but a bone stock small family car? Some ruthless thugs harassing someone in a innocent sedan, sure
lease: You're a liar. Then you're telling me that your 110-120hp Civic smoked a stock 225hp vehicle with over 300 ft/lbs of torque? Get the hell outta here. The only way I would EVER believe that is 1.) if the Mustang was actually a V6, or 2.) the Mustang had either 4.10s or 4.56 gears in the differential, making a reasonable top speed on the highway approximately 75-80mph without grinding along at 4000rpms.
As for handling, my stock EX has just as much body roll as my Mustang stock did, which is just as much as my stock Civic hatchback has...if you don't pay $25-$30K for a car and it's not lowered, don't expect much, PERIOD.
Actually that happens to me all the time people pull up (especially camaro's and mustang's) and want to race and **** and all I have is a stock sedan except shaved emblems and painted interior pieces.But I have also wooped some stangs *** on the highway around shart corners...We have a real bad one on 91 here that most people need to slow down from 75 to 60 just to handle it but i can crank along that corner at 80+.thats where the big bad american sports cars cant keep up. so i don't think what he said at all was BS
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Rep Power: 0 Well that is really gay, I would not look twice at a 4 door sedan (for a race), but I guess some people are bored and look for trouble Personally I don't even race on the street anymore, I think it's reckless, and very hard to get an accurate outcome with so many variables. Not worth the hassle, IMO.
As for the actual comparsion, I'm not going to argue with you, because there is no point. For some reason people always like to compare their vehicles to domestic V8s, and there are many possible explanations for why a 225hp vehicle with decent handling characteristics would somehow be "smoked" by an albeit lighter vehicle that has 100 less hp.
Driver skill is one reason that can never truly be accounted for, as well as condition of car and intent of the driver. So we could sit here for hours and bench race/discuss why or why not it is possible, but to no avail. We'll just have to agree to disagree
Personally I don't even race on the street anymore, I think it's reckless, and very hard to get an accurate outcome with so many variables. Not worth the hassle, IMO.As for the actual comparsion, I'm not going to argue with you, because there is no point. For some reason people always like to compare their vehicles to domestic V8s, and there are many possible explanations for why a 225hp vehicle with decent handling characteristics would somehow be "smoked" by an albeit lighter vehicle that has 100 less hp.
Driver skill is one reason that can never truly be accounted for, as well as condition of car and intent of the driver. So we could sit here for hours and bench race/discuss why or why not it is possible, but to no avail. We'll just have to agree to disagree
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Rep Power: 328 Originally posted by Miss_Hatchy
Well that is really gay, I would not look twice at a 4 door sedan (for a race
Well that is really gay, I would not look twice at a 4 door sedan (for a race
Last edited by nookiemonster; Jan 14, 2004 at 06:45 PM.
Originally posted by cduone
because the Civic already sells like hotcakes.
because the Civic already sells like hotcakes.
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Rep Power: 0 LOL. I almost forgot I made that statement. But it's true. The Civic does already sell like hotcakes. They(Honda) really doesn't want to change anything and they probably won't unless the Civic becomes the number 2 selling compact car maker. BUT THE CIVIC IS #1 IN TERMS OF SALES.
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Rep Power: 0 Here's my take on the whole situation.
If you bought a Civic to be fast or quick..... you bought the WRONG car. However, the Civic is one of the most loveable cars ever made. You "could" go an modify it with turbos, superchargers, etc... but I promise you that the reliable AND the value of the car will drop through the floor. I wouldn't even touch a "modded" civic.
My fiance and I have modified Mustangs for years. Everything from Eagle H-beam connecting rods, forged/dome pistons, forged crankshafts, huge Compcam cams (dual pattern w/555 lift & 226 duration), 70MM throttle bodies, ProM MAF sensors, 36lb injectors, GT40 upper/lower intakes, Twisted Wedge alum heads, full 3" exhaust with off-road H-pipes, 4.10 gears/3.73 gears, 5-sp/6-sp trannies (tremmecs), etc.... Let me tell you something... it's a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ***.
My advice: enjoy the Civic and leave it alone, unless you like having your car run like crap after dumping thousands into it.
If you bought a Civic to be fast or quick..... you bought the WRONG car. However, the Civic is one of the most loveable cars ever made. You "could" go an modify it with turbos, superchargers, etc... but I promise you that the reliable AND the value of the car will drop through the floor. I wouldn't even touch a "modded" civic.
My fiance and I have modified Mustangs for years. Everything from Eagle H-beam connecting rods, forged/dome pistons, forged crankshafts, huge Compcam cams (dual pattern w/555 lift & 226 duration), 70MM throttle bodies, ProM MAF sensors, 36lb injectors, GT40 upper/lower intakes, Twisted Wedge alum heads, full 3" exhaust with off-road H-pipes, 4.10 gears/3.73 gears, 5-sp/6-sp trannies (tremmecs), etc.... Let me tell you something... it's a ROYAL PAIN IN THE ***.
My advice: enjoy the Civic and leave it alone, unless you like having your car run like crap after dumping thousands into it.
Last edited by greynotch; Jan 14, 2004 at 08:01 PM.
