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God...i can't believe the entire thread that i just read. I can understand the "excitement" of possibly having a prototype "built" engine, but paying $503 for crower to experiment with your engine, with no assurance that you'll get satisfactory results sounds ridiculous.

First of all...why did this dude even bother sending his engine all the way from Trinidad?!?! He could've bought a d17a2 from ebay and then gotten that sent to crower to experiment on.

Secondly...there IS a reason to why there hasn't been much aftermarket support for the d17. And that's basically because it WASNT meant to be a "race" engine. If you 2k1 civic guys want to go fast, you really should start thinking about swapping in a K20, because from the way i see it, the d17 doesnt really have much potential

 
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^^^ Them's fightin words, but I'm in a good mood so I'll forgive his ignorance. Seriously, though, I witnessed the same mentality 20 years ago when some kids started playing around with tiny little japanese imports, trying to modify them for more power. Many nay sayers said if you wanna go fast, you gotta buy a good ol american muscle car with a "race" engine already in it. Boy were they wrong. Sure, the 7thgen civics are designed for fuel economy and ultra low emissions. But I firmly believe with enough R&D (i.e, time and money) the D17A can be modified and its ecu reprogramed to accommodate boost and the result will be a substantial power gain. I personally don't need 300 hp. I'm looking for a balance of power and perfomance with reliability and fuel economy and I'd say we're well on the way to achieving this goal, thanks to the pioneers on this website.

 
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I need someone to host a vid clip..

 
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well me i agree with RSXTC its true bout the d17... but also my man OBGuam is has a point ....i rather like to have a worked d17 cuz really....who has a worked d17.....but if i gatta turbo it or sawp then thats wat ima do...jus waiting on some $$$$

 
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Hmmm....let's see K20 swap is roughly i don't know 6g's not countin the other crap well let's say you invest that into a setup like catalyst and be pullin over 300hp on a D17 naw but it just ain't a race motor though. in my opinion no car today has an engine built for "race" unless your drivin in the indy 500 or somethin. now those cars and engines are built specifically for "race".

 
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Im behind getting those companies to make parts for our engine
I spun a rod bearing in my d17 2 weeks ago it has been very hard to locate oem parts much less aftermarket performance parts . I couldnt even find rod bearings except for from honda there is no aftermarket bearing made for our engines yet . So im rebuilding my enging at my shop and had to get a new crank the bearing ate the crank and had to get my rods sized from a local machine shop that we do bussiness with alot . It is not cheap ive spent about 550$ on parts but since im a mechanic i dont have to pay for labor or it would be rediculously expensive . But anyway ill sign a petition for getting those companies to make parts for our engine but for now its going bak together almost stock

 
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Well, i see you guys' side of the argument. It's just that I don't see the benefits outweighing the costs in trying to "build" up the d17. Feasibly, the d17 can only put out so much power. And those numbers aren't very impressive. There's so much talk about turbos and stuff, but when you actually analyze the details, you'll realize that the d17 wasn't made for power (well, reliable power at least). How else could you explain so many 7thgenners parting out their cars and selling off their turbos in the "For Sale" section, only to turn to a different platform to start modding on. Those people have realized that there is very little potential in their 1.7 SOHC engine.

so basically, my point is that there is a reason to why there isnt a vast aftermarket for d17 engine parts.

(edited for spelling/grammatical errors =)

 
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well i understand where your coming from, but you have to understand not everyone is trying to do a swap for 8g's and build that motor up for another 5g's or so to have a high horsepower motor. most of the people who have civics have it for economy, but then at the same time they would like to boost it for added power. i mean im pretty sure you could make 4-5 hundred horses out of our motor granted that enough money went into it, but its just no logical. most ppl are just looking for added power not some "race" motor.

 
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ok folk here is the vid save as

Oh BTW my trottle cable is sticking .... that is the reason for the power shifting.. (It's not the D17 trottle cable , that couldn't fit so I used the D15b trottle cable) But on a serious note my engine bay is


enjoy...

 
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vid aint working for me.

tried playing in windows media player, irfan view, quicktime, winamp, and real player.

Yes, my divx codec is up to date.

 
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Hmmm...firstly, a k20a2 swap does not cost 8k. You can find one for about 3.5k-4.5k depending on your sources. The parts needed for the swap should not cost more than 1k total. Secondly, 5k for modifications??? Most ppl would be satisfied with an I/H/E...and possibly Hondata. That totals it up to 5k+. (Btw, I honestly doubt the validity your 1.7liter SOHC engines putting out 400-500 hp. Even putting out 200+hp is an difficult feat for the d17, not to mention reliability issues due to turbocharging.)

Tried, tested, & proven K-series > "built" d17

Oh, and to clarify, when i used the term "race" motor, i meant "a motor that actually has potential". Hence the parentheses.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not ******* on you guys for wanting to make your cars faster. I just wanted to bring some light to the issue, so that the dissapointment doesnt hit too hard when your "built" d17s put down 130-140 whp. Anyhow, i hope you guys find what you're looking for through Crower.

 
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I guess you haven't noticed that there are a bunch of members on the site putting down close to 200 whp on stock internals with F/I. There's also a member putting a little more than 300 whp on stock internals with turbocharging also.

I wouldn't call a D17 with a turbo on stock internals "built." So with better internals, who knows how much power the motor will put out. The real question is how much can the tranny support and what to do after that.

 
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the vid worked for me. WMP

 
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Nice, nice.

 
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Nice vid. How much power is that throwing down??

 
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Holy crap! Wait a sec man..........you have no intake!!! Your throttle body is naked!!! I'm guessing no cat too from the black smoke coming out of your exhaust.....right?

 
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ban CROWER!!! no good!!! my friend just blew his crower cam (intake) on his prelude..snapped in half and ****ed up a lot of stuff...there was abnormal wear on his rocker arms as well...he called crower and asked them why it would have abnormal wear and they couldn't give him a proper answer..crower said they would replace it, but not the retainers and rocker arms..so he's **** out of luck

 
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I have no idea how much power the d15 is putting out but boy oh boy am I really getting fedup of being owned by everything... Oh BTW just a few hicups with my current setup :
No Power Steering, No AC, Tie Straps Holding trottle cable in place, Tie Straps holding down AC compressor, No guages work, My alternator light is a bulb in the engine bay, no air filter, no CAT, slipping clutch, the reverse light doesn't work (you get the general idea) but you know what F*ck that I don't back down from a drag.

 
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your right you can get a k motor for 3.5 - 4.5k, mjority of the motors will go for about4.5 because not everyone is gonna be able to find a cheap one. now throw in the cost to have the parts installed your looking at roughly 8k give or take a little. if ppl were trying to boost in the first place why would they swap and not boost?

like others have said several members are putting down over 200whp, and there are not built. one member is putting down 300. so given enough money im pretty sure you can see 400whp on our d17.

 
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damn.....for all those problems i would rather have stayed stock

 
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me want me want

 
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You are wrong in your prediction that a k20 swap into a 7thgen will cost 8k. I still stand by my claim that one can obtain a K20a2 at around 4k. Parts and labor for the swap should not cost more than 2k total. That leaves us with 6k

You mentioned something about why someone would do a swap and not boost. One word: Reliability. With BPUs, the K20A2 has been proven to be able to put down 200+ wheel hp Naturally Aspirated.

The member that you said put down 300 whp is catalyst. However, you did not mention that he was running SIXTEEN psi of boost w/ an alcohol injection system, ported head, etc. If you ran 16psi of boost on a K-series engine, i can only imagine the power that you'll be putting down. The point i'm trying to get at is that basically ANY motor can make hp given the right amount of cash. Common sense would tell one the he/she should start out with an engine that is better balanced & designed for high horsepower applications, rather than try to make an "economy driven" engine fast. That's why i've seen so many 7thgenners give up on the d17 and move on to bigger/better things (RSX-S, Evo, 240s, bimmers, etc)

 
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well i just got back from the shop today and to do a k20 swap in my area was gonna cost around 7g which includes install... i would rather spend 2-3g for a turbo and spend another 2g on buying internals... my neighbor here has a 7thgen also who has a turbo he bought for 2.5g.. he put down 200hp on stock internals... now he has a built bottom end in his garage which he only spent about 1.5g making.. now his total is 4g total.. still cheaper than doing a swap... and all he gotta do now is just do some head work and cam and he good to go... now to do a turbo on a k20 u would still need to buy some low compression pistons first cause the compression ratio on the k20 are too high compared to our cars.. but like u said earlier and this is the only thing i agree with you on....**"he/she should start out with an engine that is better balanced & designed for high horsepower applications, rather than try to make an "economy driven" engine fast. That's why i've seen so many 7thgenners give up on the d17"....i agree with that because to me the d17 are for the truly aspired engine builders and not for somone who thinks that bolt-ons will make u that fast.... a b16,b20 and so forth all give much more power on just i/h/e alone compared to a 7thgen which is second to none.... if you like to build engines and got the money then a 7thgen will work for you.... but if ur not into that and just want a car where u can put an intake and exhaust and call it a day.. then go take the easy way out and get a car that already has what u want and put a nice little exhaust on it for some sound and BOOM... u got an instant racer

 
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i never said anything about not boosting. i said why would you not boost if you swapped, when your whole intention is to have a boosted car.
honestly im not trying to fight with you, you have to understand not everyone is gonna be able to do a k20 swap for 6k.

i for one plan to get a turbo, 2k outta my pocket for a little more power. Im not looking for a 12sec or even 11sec car. and im pretty sure not everyone is. although it would be nice.

 
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yea i hope to be boosted by may.

 
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if you want a k20 look at ebay. I got motor tranny ecu for $2350 plus $1500 for the mounts radiator, etc and annother $600 for five lug with stock canadian rsx-s wheels. Thats less than $5000 before install but i also do need tires. 6k sounds about right for a cheap one.

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...&page=18&pp=15

This is a good thread to get you started on if your interested and want to read 18 pages of crap.

Later

ps, ill take any of you on when i get it installed in 2 weeks.

 
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vid doesn't work but sound is there.
Sounded like you made some serious smoke in that burnout.

 
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BTW: Have fun buying motors off ebay, great gurantee

But in anycase, for the motor build. I cant wait. I was at battle of the imports here in chicago and saw an EG hatch with a d16 bored to a d18 run a 11.20 all motor. That was a SOHC motor! I was damn impressed. Just my 2 cents after what I saw

 
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you both are gay for fighting over the internet. K20 swap vs. build + turbo is a dumb argument. strictly based on personal opinion. end the whoring of this thread. make love, not war.

 
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Everyone that had something to say in the matter voiced out their opinions in a constructive manner. Some believe that the D17 has potential. I however, believe that the K20A2 is the way to go if one wants to make power while preserving reliability.

Don't have anything to add to the argument? Don't step in then. That's that