Wankenstein

95 Civic EX B20b block, 1.8L DOHC head, aftermarket (Phearable) ECU, LS manual transmission.

Crank with no start situation. No spark on all wires. CEL code #8. Engine would start/run fine until performing a recent cylinder leak test (150 psi air straight into cylinders) to find a possible headgasket leak. My first air injected leak test and Ezone guided me through via PM's. One of the several questions I asked was can I rock the cylinder to find true TDC and he replied: "Sure. This is not a problem on engines that use a fixed tensioner pulley."
I was concerned rotating the engine clockwise might cause valves damage. This is another tip he provided: "Watch the belts and pulleys when you apply air pressure, if you pushed a piston down they all move as the crank spins a half turn. When a piston is up it has to be pretty darn exact. When setting up the middle cylinders I stick a long screwdriver in to watch when I reach the highest point. (don't drop screwdriver in while the piston is low, you can do damage if you try to turn the crank)"
As I manually spun the crank counterclockwise I had a whip inserted into the spark plug hole threads so I could hear air being pushed out and when air started pushing out I removed the whip and inserted a plastic blinds wand (in place of a long screwdriver) and moved the piston to TDC. Sometimes it would take a few times of rocking the cylinder back and forth to find absolute TDC. When I didn't have it right at TDC the piston would move and I could see the a/c belt move counter-clockwise just as Ezone stated. However, twice the belts spun quickly a few times in a clockwise direction (or that's what I thought I saw) when air was injected. Referring back to Ezone's statement "This is not a problem on engines that use a fixed tensioner pulley" I don't know if this fast clockwise movement may have affected the TDC sensor inside the distributor? When cranking the engine since the head-gasket test I do not hear any abnormal noises.

Mechanical timing is correct. I have not checked ignition timing yet and I have not tested the ignition coil (per Ezone method) yet.
Would like to know the logical testing steps to take? This read includes a flow chart: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...ensor-3184733/
As a side note I kept a battery charger connected while cranking the engine for the compression test that I did a few days ago prior to leak test. The connected battery charger shouldn't have created any issues though but if it did my guess would be an effect on the ECU.

Update:
I reset the ECU and the CEL code did not reappear. I tested the coil (ezone method). Since a long screw driver wouldn't reach to ground I used one side (black clips) of a battery jumper cable. Clipped one side to ground and the other to a long screw driver that I held close to the coil as my mom cranked the engine..no spark seen. I need to purchase a test light and the power probe shown in video to see if power is getting to coil and from ECU:

mac25

Was the charger on "trickle charge" "charge" or "start".
If it wasn't a starter style charger on "start" then it is possible that the battery is low enough not to give full spark.

This is a long shot, but I'd rule out batter issues by jumping it to another car.

You probably already did this but check all gounds and fuse, especially the ground to the head.

ezone

Power at the coil you can check with a volt meter or test light.

Even after you confirm 12v+ at the coil hot terminal, you still need to determine if the coil is being triggered by the ICM.

Can you beg/borrow/steal a dwell meter? LED test light? Something to check for coil trigger signal to the coil

Wankenstein

There's two dwell meters for sale on craigslist and both are about a 30 hour drive away: https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/tls...735417572.html and https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/tls...770564120.html

This one does dwell: https://www.harborfreight.com/lcd-au...kit-95670.html
Will this an LED test light work?: https://www.harborfreight.com/comput...obe-63597.html

Update:
I texted the guy who's selling the Penske analyzer and he has another one as well..Craftsman brand. He also has a timing light and a dwell tach. He told me $20 for all so as long as they work (he's testing them now..he just inherited them from a friend) . However, if that harbor freight LED will work then it's much closer to my home.

ezone

30 hour drive seems kinda far.


dwellmeter or LED light, either/or. I just want one dang thing to positively verify the trigger signal is present during cranking.

dwell may read very low like 3 to 5 degrees, and if using a LED light it's an extremely dim and very brief pulse if present.

Wankenstein

Well, my wife and I are driving to that area to attend my brother and his wife's Christmas party tonight. I told the guy if he's willing to meet me near my brother's place (a 10 minute drive for him) that I will purchase the items listed for $20. Other than the dwell on that system analyzer would I be able to hook up the tachometer function on my car? If not, I'll just go with the LED tester.

I know this is yet to be determined but, the battery charger connected during cranking possibly damage the ECU? From what I've read is the battery charger might blow a fuse or sustain damage but shouldn't effect an ECU.I'm just trying to figure out if it was something I did during the compression and leak test I did or is it just an unfortunate coincidence?

Update: Decided to go with the LED test light as the seller didn't want to drive to meet me. Will test tomorrow and post results. Testing same as shown in video?

ezone

I dunno why, but if there's a test connector somewhere then yes.

How big was it? What was max voltage output on whatever setting you used?
Leaving a plug wire off causes the ignition coil to put out maximum voltage as it attempts to (create a spark big enough to) find a ground to complete the circuit. If the coil is already old and insulation has started to breakdown, this event can be the final nail in the coffin, so to speak.

I know this is a common fail on 6th gen Civics and I've even caused a failure myself during testing on a customers car.

Is the dist or coil on the B20 engine the same as a 6th gen? IDK but it's sure possible.
Wanna just spend 70 on a coil and try it?

Wankenstein

[QUOTE=ezone;4755398]How big was it? What was max voltage output on whatever setting you used?/QUOTE]

An old home use Craftsman charger with a single push button, three position selection: 6v/off/12v. I charged it using the 12v selection.

I see. I did not disconnect the distributor harness during compression testing..just removed the spark plug wire leads only from the plugs.

I'm not sure as I didn't write down the part # of the coil yet. It's a '97-'01 Integra LS head so I think this is most likely the correct coil: https://www.acurapartsnow.com/oem-pa...ZC1tYW51YWw%3D

Where can I get an OEM for $70. Searched used ones on car-parts.com and it looks like that coil fits multiple Honda/Acura engines..$35
I could purchase this one which should last a day or two LOL: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ignition-...2-3L/221897640

Wankenstein

I purchased that LED tester from harbor freight. Instructions say to test to see if probe is working properly clip black clip to negative battery terminal and red clip to red battery terminal then touch probe to positive side of battery and should light up red...it did light up red. Probe touched to negative battery terminal should light up green and it did.

Testing coil:
1) voltmeter set on 20 DC. Voltmeter black to negative battery terminal and red lead to coil's positive terminal equals 11 volts while cranking engine
2) both probe clips connected to proper battery terminals and touched probe tip to positive side of coil terminal while cranking engine...result: red flashing light.
3) both probe clips connected to proper battery terminals and touched probe tip to negative side of coil terminal while cranking engine...result: red flashing light

For #3 of coil test I was expecting a green light to flash but it flashed red. So, I disconnected the negative clip (only) and touched the probe tip to the coil's negative terminal and it flashed green while cranking. My probe is different than the one the guy is using in the video so I'm not sure what this means?
I'm going to pull a used coil from local salvage yard. The only stamp I found on the coil on my engine is TEC TC-08A which upon further referencing is the OEM part number I linked previously: 30510-PT2-006

ezone

Trigger confirmed. Put a coil in it.

not oe for that price......DangerZoo LOL....maybe as low as 34 bux.

Used in some Accord/Civic/CRV

Wankenstein

Woofing down some sweet *** KFC right now a minute from LKQ
Figure I'll pull a couple TEC coils (if available) and hope one works.
If it starts/runs then I'm right back to the step one: driving it and see if coolant overflows.

Wankenstein

$16 used TEC coil got it running. Installed new radiator cap and hoping for the best. KFC is gross but it was the closest choke & puke to the junkyard. Thanks again Ezone for helping me through this.

As far as the tester I purchased and testing the coil what specifically tells you a signal is sent from the ECU.?

From now on when checking compression should I disconnect the distributor harness?[

I dropped the original distributor rotor screw and couldn't find it. So, I purchased a grade 10 that's a bit shorter but I couldn't remember if the original had a lock-washer on it .The new one I installed I didn't use a lock washer...should I add one? I had a bit of trouble getting that screw to line up properly and was very concerned of cross threading but I got it in okay. I purchased a pack of 10 from Fastenal.

ezone

You know where I said "trigger signal" in the earlier post? That's all I needed to know to determine the issue is with the coil. Points signal in, plus power, no spark, the coil must be bad

If the trigger signal wasn't there, then we'd be chasing "up the ladder" through the other things that control that signal (ICM, ECM, etc.)
If you want to know about the coils trigger signal, go back to early days of points and condenser and see how coil was controlled back then (spark is created when the point contacts open, that's the 'points open' signal ---also known as transformer field collapse--).


The trigger signal for modern ignition coils is still pretty similar to those olden days albeit the dwell is now computer controlled and doesn't have to be 28 or 44 degrees anymore.. That's why I said it might be 3-5 degrees during cranking.
Its a good idea to

I thought some rotors come with a new screw? Oh well, whatever works.

Wankenstein

I never replaced the rotor only the rotor screw but didn't use a lock-washer.

Since getting the engine running again I have driven it to and from work (10-15 minutes each way) for the past two days and I I haven't seen any coolant (overflow) under the car. Tonight I drove it around for twenty minutes and then checked the reservoir and no bubbles seen at idle. However, when I revved the engine bubbles appeared quickly...is this normal: waterpump cavitation?

ezone

I can't say. I would say to just keep an eye on the radiator and reservoir levels.

Wankenstein

Alright, I'll update in a few days. Thank you.

mac25

Good job guys!

bowdown

miscommunication with ckp