trigley

Help, I don't get it. My son's 1991 hatchback wouldn't start one cold morning. Plugs were way over gap from use, and badly fouled with black soot. Also, spark seemed kind of weak; I replaced plugs, valve cover gasket, and put in new aftermarket distributor (includes coil, ignition control module, rotor, cap) and new plug wires. Tried starting while jumping battery with my truck; fired once but that was it. But, good spark! Measured fuel pressure at filter; 40 psi, holds pressure when key turned off. Tried dribbling gasoline into throat of throttle body and cranking; didn't even cough once. What could it be? Oh, and I can clearly see the camshaft turning through the oil fill cap when cranking. So, I've got strong spark, fuel, mechanical functioning; what am I missing? Help!!

mikey1

now that you have installed a new distributor, your timing is probably off, which is most likely not helping the issue,

compression test?

spray some carb cleaner in the throttle body while cranking,

how are you verifying it has good spark?

trigley

Thanks for the help. I verified spark by pulling a couple of plugs and attaching the corresponding high tension wire and grounding the spark body while cranking. Very bright spark, even a crack noise with each spark. Seemed plenty vigorous. As far as I can see, the distributor is keyed to the camshaft so it cannot get inserted incorrectly. Other than that, there seems to be only very slight rotational adjustment to the distributor body. Is the distributor timing not set electronically by the car's computer according to the pickup information sent from the distributor? Maybe I should try rotating the distributor body back and forth while cranking? It might fire up if I blunder into the correct position? I didn't try spraying carb cleaner into the throttle body, but I did try gasoline; would carb cleaner be better? Funny, by son drove it home and parked, then the next morning it wouldn't start. I can try a compression test, can't hurt. Thanks again for helping; any further ideas are welcome. I will admit to having only a partial understanding of what could cause non-starting.

RIPSAW

Fuel pressure low?? Not sure. Thought it ought to be around 60. Most are but no 91 manual. Should hit on dribbled fuel. Use a spray bottle or starter fluid..be careful..out of time could backfire and set throttle body or car on fire. How did you check timing? You can eyeball it by setting #1 a few degrees before top dead center, and rotate the distributor till rotor just starts to get to one tower. (back when we had points before I owned a timing light, would use cigarette paper under points. Set damper at correct degree and turn to paper pulled out. Boy, miss those days. $2-4 dollar tune ups.

trigley

Thank you Ripsaw, for the good ideas. I will look for factory spec on fuel pressure, and I will do as you suggest to verify timing. I suppose it could be something weird, like it jumped the timing belt a couple of teeth just when my son went to start it up in the morning. It was extremely cold here in Ohio on that morning, like well below zero Fahrenheit. Mighty suspicious that this began under extreme cold; what do you think? Thanks very much, Ted Rigley. PS - Thanks for the caution about a mis-timed engine presenting a fire hazard. Yeah, I remember those old days with the point gapping too. Good times.

RIPSAW

That year, I am pretty sure has a locked tensioner on the timing belt. I seriously doubt it jumped. Know you hear that, but my guess is if they jump do, they go too far and bend valves. My 85 did when the cam shaft broke and my 94 was a locked type tensioner. Replace one belt on it. How many miles since last belt? 90 K is really pushing it on OEM. If it was aftermarket, no telling since they are junk.

mikey1

during starting/cranking is when there is the most stress on the teeth of the timing belt, even more so when cold, its possible a few teeth were stripped off the belt during cranking, which would throw the timing off even if the cam is still turning,

just another idea and thing to check

trigley

Thank you mikey1, I was wondering if such a thing could have happened. I will inspect for the integrity of the timing belt, and check the camshaft timing. I hope it's not too big a deal on this engine. Does anyone know whether this 1.5L engine is an interference engine? Thanks again. It does seem that something weird is going on with this engine.

ezone

Cranks fast, sounds weak? flooded and lost compression?
Are the plugs wet?

Most are flooded after the dist or coil craps out, someone keeps cranking and fuel keeps injecting, now the plugs get wet and won't fire.


Firing order around the cap correct?

trigley

Hello ezone, yes, I've triple-checked the firing order at the distributor cap; and, the new plugs seem dry enough. I'm leaning toward the damaged timing belt theory? I need to find out how to check the cam timing and replace the belt, I'm sure it must be pretty old. My son bought this car last year with about 199,000 miles on it. We replaced the clutch, but nothing else on the engine except oil and filters, and now plugs, wires, and distributor. So, as far as I can tell, it's got good spark and fuel pressure. Cranks good but won't fire. I've got to get this thing figured out. Any further ideas to check are most welcome. Clearly, there's something I'm not understanding correctly. Of course, that's true of lots of things, ha ha.

ezone

I'd probably start with my timing light, check ignition timing while cranking. If it's not real close to correct that would warrant more investigation.

Or you can pull the top timing cover and check timing mark alignments that way. And check belt condition. I'd at least inspect before jumping in to replace the belt, make sure if that's the problem or not.



Compression, fuel and spark.
In the correct amounts, at the correct times.

Do the injectors tick while cranking?
You familiar with the main relay problems? (not sure if that used the same or not)