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Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it ForumIf you've got a problem you just can't figure out, a noise you can't diagnose, or a Check Engine Light that won't go away, ask about it here!
here’s what the top end looked like so far: #4, yuk #1, yuk Bores of two and three Not too bad for 235k miles I guess. I can still see the cross hatch in most places, with a slight polishing on the thrust side, but no scratches and no ridge on the top of the cylinders Nasty
But no worse than I had expected. The head goes to the machine shop tomorrow. We’ll see if It’s flat.
I decided to rering it while it was apart, and I think it was a good choice:
I’d have been some upset if it burned oil after the head gasket and new valve seals. By the looks of the oil scrapers it would have. I bought NPR. Rings locally and despite what the sales guy claimed (you’re going to have to file all of them) all were on the loose end of the New ring range, but well under the service limit.
the rod bearings have me a little worried though:
That one has me nervous, though it didn’t make any noise in the car before being disassembled Same feeling about this one. The other one didn’t have copper showing
Last edited by Sactocivic; 04-03-2018 at 03:24 AM.
hey sactocivic.. thanks for the update/progress on your head gasket replacement. As I agree with you about those rings, glad to hear you replaced them. About the journal bearings, they look sketchy! If you're in there, just replace 'em. Not bad for 225k miles but almost looks like they weren't using good enough oil or it went too long in the oil change interval (causing more wear over time).
Thanks Oneheadlight, it’s coming along. The shop said the ex valve guides are worn and recommended replacement, but I’m going to pass on the extra +\- $200 I’ll know later today if the head is flat.
the pistons sure look better now: I wish the bearings had looked this good!
There’s a lot more friction with the new rings in the cylinders, and there’s a little bit of a tight spot with the crank about 90 deg away from tdc. It’s not really tight, but it is tighter than tdc or bdc.
im not really sure what to think about that.
Last edited by Sactocivic; 04-03-2018 at 03:48 PM.
There’s a lot more friction with the new rings in the cylinders, and there’s a little bit of a tight spot with the crank about 90 deg away from tdc. It’s not really tight, but it is tighter than tdc or bdc.
im not really sure what to think about that.
Mechanical advantage vs. friction.
Rings cause the friction.
Bearings had better not be causing any significant friction at any point!
Consider at TDC/BDC, ALL FOUR pistons are at a limit of travel.
Crank is easiest to move when all 4 pistons are not moving....usually you can move the crank by hand at that particular point. That very easy movement can only occur within a few degree range.
At crank 90*, all 4 pistons are at mechanical advantage in relation to the crankshaft. Crank has mechanical disadvantage, crank is hardest to move against the friction of the rings when throws are at 90*.
Otherwise, just be sure the thing spins smoothly without binding. You did oil the cylinders (or pistons/rings) before stuffing pistons in, yes?
Thanks ezone, lol I’m usually thinking about mech adv. in terms of stroke length and torque, it didn’t dawn on me that it’s the same for spinning the crank by hand I didn’t put the pistons in without rings to see if the rod bearings were binding, though it did spin REALLY easy with the old rings, almost no friction anywhere in the cranks rotation. Yes, all the holes were lubed, I never put a rod in a dry hole.
got any insight into the condition of the rod bearings? I didn’t plastiguage them, but it didn’t knock before I took it apart. Obviously I’m not a fan of seeing the babbitt worn through.
I fear going too far down the rabbit hole here, as I had originally planned to just do the HG, t belt and water pump. Now it’s got new rings and valve seals. The rod bearings are another $50 IF the clearances are correct on the 1st try (I don’t have micrometers)...
i robably should have taken my friends advice and not put rings in it!
Last edited by Sactocivic; 04-03-2018 at 08:16 PM.
Well....you got the pistons extremely clean, did you do that to the bearings too?
IDK......It didn't make noise, and you didn't have a problem with them, but they loook like they wore past the first layer so I guess it's a toss up as to stuffing fresh shells in there --but you already went this far now is the time to do it
Set of standard shells from a parts store or machine shop and some plastigauge? Stuff shells in and just make sure it turns freely?
Nope, my obsessively compulsive cleaning disorder doesn’t extend to plain bearings they looked like that when they came out. I almost rotated them 180 in the shells to put the good side of the shell on the top of the rods )
that pail of chem dip did most of the hard work, though it leaves a residue like evaporated gas if you don’t rinse the parts, and the Honda Broken Ring Service tool makes quick work of the ring lands.
the head is done, the exhaust valves to guides are worn out of spec but I just had them put the new seals in it instead of the full valve job. It wasn’t smoking before :/
Last edited by Sactocivic; 04-03-2018 at 10:34 PM.
The shop took .006” off the head to get it flat and put new seals in it. They seem to have done a pretty good job, especially for $90.00 but I saved $40 by removing the cam myself, though I kind of wish the valve train had gone in the hot tank.
I doused the cam with assembly lube and set the lash in the middle of the spec.
Everything went back together pretty easily. I was surprised how east it was to get 14lbs-ft + 90 deg. with just a 24” breaker bar on the crank pulley bolt.
I did forget to put the rear timing cover on the head before putting the cam gear on, doh!
I didn’t put rod bearings in it, though I may in the near future. I was really pressed for time because it’s my dd.
After I put it together with the old NGKs in it, it wouldn’t start and I was sweating bullets for a bit, but when I checked for spark, it was pretty weak on the old plugs so I replaced them and it started instantly. Before starting it I cranked it with the plugs out and the dizzy and injectors unplugged 3 or 4 times for about 20 seconds or so each time to get some oil flowing.
cold it made about 150psi on #1.
after running and driving for an half an hour or so it was 170-180psi on all four holes.
definitely feels better now, and no more oil lagoons on the floor of the garage, yet
Oh, don’t believe the fsm when it tells you 13 lbs-ft for the water temp sensor, at least not for one that’s 18 years old!
try 8-10. I found out the $30 way
Oh, don’t believe the fsm when it tells you 13 lbs-ft for the water temp sensor, at least not for one that’s 18 years old!
try 8-10. I found out the $30 way
lol.. yup I replaced the water temp sensor, I know what you mean! It's not much to snug that sensor down!
no new rod bearings, well it's back together for now, if anything happens you'll know what to replace! being your DD of course you had to get it back together quickly.. you know what would help you? a used oil analysis. Like Blackstone-labs.com I send my oil off to them and that's how I found the Toyota brand oil (made by mobil) wasn't as good as it was in the past, was shearing down/thinning out too quickly. It was excellent oil but looks like Mobil made a recipe change. the oil analysis let me see that, and I switched to Castrol GTX, the wear numbers went down. so maybe if you got a lab analysis then you could see the lead numbers which relate to the wearing of the rod bearings, then you'd know before they fail. if they do. I paid $28 for the analysis. Amsoil also has kits that you can send off to Polaris Labs. just a thought for ya.
and congrats on the work! that shop looks like they did an awesome job on the cylinder head! dang!! $90, not bad at all! Did you just find that shop or someone recommended them? Just awesome to still find good shops out there!
did you replace the timing cover or left it open?
either way sounds like you're going to have an engine that will last you a LONGGG time!! always nice to hear good news!
I replaced the cover, the ocd in me couldn' have tolerated it sitting on the workbench
I'm sure I'll be replacing the bearings in the near future, for the same reason I replaced the timing cover.
Now that I've seen them, I'll be wondering when they'e going to fail every time I stomp the gas pedal, though I don' drive the car very hard. My 20's are a long way behind me, and I like the cheap insurance that comes with a clean driving record.
The hardest part about the rod bearings is the stud girdle. There just isn' very much room in there to work. I think I'll just use a new shell to push an old one out of the rod unless someone has a better suggestion?
I changed the rod bearings out with Clevite std. size bearings. All of them plastigaged between .001-.0015
all in, it was about 4 or 5 hours. Not really hard, but the plastigage took some time as the engine is in the car.
after the head gasket was changed and the valves adjusted I could hear what I thought was a little bearing noise. The valves Were making most of the noise before
seems to be a little, or maybe a lot quieter now.
Here’s the upper shells: Top to bottom is cyl 1-4
It’s tough to get decent pics of them. Seems like increasing wear amounts from #1 having the least to #4 being the worst.
Last edited by Sactocivic; 04-14-2018 at 01:22 AM.
The backs of the bearings look a little odd to me. They’re all ‘striped’ for lack of a better term:
Is that common, or normal for 18 year old rod bearings with 200+ thousand miles?
theinsides of therods had the same marks though you can’t feel them at all.
Is that common, or normal for 18 year old rod bearings with 200+ thousand miles?
theinsides of therods had the same marks though you can’t feel them at all.
This looks like just discoloration, pretty typical imo
I replaced the cover, the ocd in me couldn' have tolerated it sitting on the workbench
I'm sure I'll be replacing the bearings in the near future, for the same reason I replaced the timing cover.
Now that I've seen them, I'll be wondering when they'e going to fail every time I stomp the gas pedal, though I don' drive the car very hard. My 20's are a long way behind me, and I like the cheap insurance that comes with a clean driving record.
The hardest part about the rod bearings is the stud girdle. There just isn' very much room in there to work. I think I'll just use a new shell to push an old one out of the rod unless someone has a better suggestion?
hey sactocivic! Yeah I couldnt tolerate not having everything installed correctly, either!
I see you replaced the bearings too, congrats! Glad you got it all done now! How's it running with the new bearings? Anything different?
and a clean driving record is GOLD! I've been clean for awhile too (thanks to a good radar detector, uniden brand if you're wondering) and my insurance is very, very low! I know what you mean! I do get into the rpm's since it's so much fun with this engine! (hx, but still fun) But most of the time the mpg's is what I'm having fun achieving.
glad to hear everything is working out well with your engine and the repair! thanks for the update!
I get $.54/mi when I drive my car for work, and I drive it about 500-800 miles/week, so I appreciate the economy of the civic. Hopefully I’ll see better fuel mileage with the new rings and freshened up head. I was only getting low 30’s before on the highway
oh nice.. get to be paid to drive, nice rate.. yeah low 30s on the highway is what I've been getting on the highway. then again, its been insanely cold here in Michigan.. 20's, when it gets warmer I should jump up (have an HX).
Well, the car runs well, but I didn’t see much of a fuel economy improvement, if any. I got excited when I saw 36mpg after a 200mi highway trip, but the return was the usual 30-31. Must have had a good tailwind. I haven been able to duplicate that number.
Seems like low 30’s on the highway and high 20’s or 30 in town is about all I’m going to get, and probably pretty normal for CA drivers.
i suppose if I slowed down to 65 or so on the highway the mileage would get better but traffic usually runs 75-85 mph here.
Seems no matter how good a job I did cleaning the pistons, they’re still slapping in the bores a little 🤣
guess I shoulda bought the NPR pistons to go with my shiny new rings LoL
You only fixed stuff that was worn/failed/stuck, right? I don't think you can expect any better than original performance and fuel economy (which varies greatly depending on your particular driving situations)
Stop/go is a mileage killer.
I can get over 40 MPG in my car (with huge tires and wheels LOL) if I stay under 60 and stay very steady speed for 100+ miles at a time, but if I keep up with traffic on the interstate that's going 80 MPH and higher, my gas mileage can drop to low 30s and sometimes into the high 20s.
On my original tires and wheels I could hit over 50 MPG if I stayed 50-55 MPH and didn't have to slow or turn
04-01-2018
I’ll know later today if the head is flat.
I didn’t put the pistons in without rings to see if the rod bearings were binding, though it did spin REALLY easy with the old rings, almost no friction anywhere in the cranks rotation. Yes, all the holes were lubed, I never put a rod in a dry hole. 
they looked like that when they came out. I almost rotated them 180 in the shells to put the good side of the shell on the top of the rods 
Re: D16Y8 Headgasket replacement 
always nice to hear good news! 
