dkyfamily777

I have a 1992 honda civic that after either traveling less then 10 minutes away or when hitting a 45mph highway I begin to get poor acceleration and the wheels start smoking and smelling. I have noticed when traveling in regular traffic that right before the poor acceleration and smoking wheels episode the brake pedal will get hard. At one point I will have to refill the brake fluid after each of these 10 minute or less trips but I never saw a brake fluid leak. Since I havent been driving (other then up the street to a convient store) im not sure if this brake fluid consumption still present since mechanic worked on the calipers and wheel cylinders. Please help I need this car to get to school (which I must take the highway) and to an interview.

I purchased used 2 weeks ago. When we first got it the brakes felt like they were nearly out. The pedal went all the way to the floor. Seller nudged it off saying he just had put brake fluid in the previous day. We purchased and called a mechanic after I drove and realized the brakes was nearly out. called a mechanic and he said the brakes need to be bled. When he got here he said we had no brakes and that we would need a booster and he will see if theres any other problems. When him and his partner was looking at it he stated it did not need a master cylinder. I never worked with this mechanic and didnt know a mechanic so I decided to shop around for prices on putting a booster in.

I found another mechanic whose price was more of what I could afford. He look at it and he didnt think it was the booster and instead checked the brake master cylinder. He confirmed it wasnt working because it was not spraying to the back. We got that fixed and my brakes came back.

Next time we drove the car we was going to get something to eat (not too far away) We made it to one store the on our way to the next the car wasnt accelerating like it suppose to. We seen a little smoke and pulled over immediately. (stupid us) we hadn't checked the fluid. Put oil in it to make it home and called mechanic again.

Before mechanic came we end up adding antifreeze. The radiator fan wasnt engaging. So he replaced a fuse. He felt these hoses and one part wasnt getting warm. End up replacing thermostat and the radiator top. solved that problem.

Go to get on a 45 mph road and acceleration is poor then soon the wheels starts smoking. We pull off on the next exit and make it to a pull a part. They say we have a locke calipar.

Call mechanic again and he fix front right caliper. Problem still exhist. He come back and said the back brake cylinders was bad. Before he left the from fixing the brake cylinders they test drove it and on the test drive it did the same thing. He looked under hood and said he think its the proportioning valve but no further looking since the test drive.

ezone

You need to pay the price for a competent mechanic, since nobody has yet solved your problems.

This would have been easy to diagnose if one knows how it all works together as a system.

This might have been far cheaper to fix if the actual problem was addressed correctly the first time.

Now it's going to cost you.

Now you need a master cylinder, at the very least. Plus flushing every bit of the brake system with denatured alcohol to remove all traces of oil.


You have had the brakes dragging. You kept driving as the brakes were trying to lock up. You boiled the fluid.
You probably ruined the calipers at the very least from heat damage.

Why were the brakes dragging in the first place?
It might be too late to tell for sure, at this point.
Probably a petroleum product in the master cylinder, or booster pushrod adjustment.

If your guy has been bleeding contaminated fluid through the brand new brake caliper(s), they will need replaced yet again.

dkyfamily777

Thanks for the response.

Im not sure why the brakes were dragging in the first place and thats what I need diagnosed and fixed.

I will ask mechanic to look into the push rod adjustments when he come by today. My brake fluid do not seem to be contaminated it still looks clear in the master cylinder.

Feel free to post more input and replys

thanks

ezone

As the driver of the car, you must be pretty unaware of your machine to not realize the car is trying to stop itself without any input from yourself. Long before there is smoke rolling out of the wheels, the problem was readily apparent. (Can you read between the lines here?)
Strike one: Continuing to drive until the brakes are so hot they glow and smoke. More damage.

Strike two: You said you put oil in it to make it home. I'm assuming you meant engine oil, and that's horribly bad. Brake fluid is golden, so is oil. They are not the same and they are not compatible.

Strike three: Improper diagnosis and repair from the start.

You're out!
This is brakes, dummy.
Safety.
You aren't going to Fred Flintstone it to a stop after the brakes fail completely.
Brakes are all you have to stop the car that weighs over a ton from crashing into a school bus, a van full of seniors, or a biker. I could be that biker. People like you scare the poop out of me.
Involuntary manslaughter, anyone?
/rant

Ok, done venting.....




If the rubber seal in the cap is swollen, there is oil. The brake fluid is contaminated. The rubber used in hydraulic brake systems swells horribly when petroleum products contact it.

Stick your finger in clean brake fluid and rub your fingers together.
Now do the same with the brake fluid in your reservoir. Does it feel the same?

The master cylinder must be replaced if the fluid is contaminated.
Every part of the brake system that contains rubber and has been contaminated with petroleum must be replaced. Every part of the hydraulic system must be flushed to remove all traces of oil.
This means a complete teardown to do it properly.





To start a diagnosis for dragging brakes, first I have to know how many wheels are affected. All 4 wheels? Both fronts? A single wheel?
The symptoms dictate the diagnosis methods to be used, along with knowing the type of system the car uses, and knowing all of the components in a given system. Every car is different.

Does the car have a F/R split system, or an "X" split system?

Diagnosis is NOT guesswork. You have been paying for guesswork, with potentially disastrous results. See my rant above.

The method of diag is pretty simple.
IF someone understands diagnosing a hydraulic system fault.

If all the brakes are affected, start at the first point they all have in common.

In a hydraulic system control problem, you start at the control and work your way outward. The control point in the case of brakes is the master cylinder.

Drive it a block or whatever just to get the brakes to START dragging. Not smoking and locked up completely. Get all 4 wheels off of the ground so you can tell which wheels are dragging or locked, and so you can tell when the brakes release in the diagnosis.

First, eliminate the possibility of a mechanical control fault.
Loosen the fasteners that hold the master cylinder to the brake booster. Loosen them both by about a half dozen turns. Pull the master cylinder away from the booster.
If the brakes release, the problem is within the booster area. Either the length of the pushrod needs shortened, or there is a booster or a pedal problem. Now we should know which direction to continue, hydraulic or mechanical.

If the brakes did not release, then start cracking lines loose at the master cylinder to release fluid pressure. Do the brakes release? Bad master cylinder.

Still locked up? Move to the next part in the system, a proportioning valve if there is one. Break the lines loose there.

You continue working your way outward until you get to the spot that allows the brake to release. When it releases, the problem was behind whatever you took apart.

If you get all the way through the system to loosening the brake line at a caliper and the brakes still haven't released, then the caliper itself would be at fault (or the pads are seized for whatever reason).



Now.....My guess is it started out as a pushrod length problem, or contaminated fluid that caused a master cylinder problem.
Problem is, any other damage caused by continuing to drive it after the first problem was already apparent just complicates things.


Not cheap, no matter who has to fix it. And if it isn't fixed correctly, it will just keep costing you. You need someone smarter than a parts replacer.

HTH

dkyfamily777

Im sorry if my description of symptoms and/or what happened was unclear. When I said I put oil in the car I was talking about engine oil where engine oil go not engine oil where break fluid go (im not good with cars but I no not to do that).

When Im driving the brakes still work. The pedal is hard but I can get the brakes to work. I dont continue to drive, it happens all of a sudden this is how I notice theres a problem:

I have been driving. When I take my feet of the gas the car dosent keep its speed. The brake pedal is hard. When I notice poor acceleration I begin to look for somewhere to pull over but by this time its already smoking.

Example. Everything is working, brake pedal is normal. Im stopped at an entrance rap waiting to get on a 45mph highway. When it is my turn I accelerate. By time I get up the street from where I got on the highway the car is dragging and by time I make it off an exit the wheels are smoking. The car operates normal until I do 1 of 2 things

1. get on a highway
2. ive been driving in regular traffic for less then 10 minutes.

After the car was taken on a test drive yesterday (when the back wheel cylinders were replaced) they went on the highway, but I think it got a little further then it usually do, but the same thing happened.

Yesterday when it happened both back wheels and the front left wheel had smoke coming from them.

The problem is the brakes dragging and/or getting hot too fast. Before the wheel cylinders was replaced, We took the mechanic on a test drive to see what we were talking about and after going two and a half miles, the problem occured. Everytime the problem happens I have no choice but to pull over because I cant continue at the speed of traffic, but I still have some braking power. I would never put my life, or my families life in jeprody just to continue driving when I sense a problem.

ezone

Sorry about the rant. It is scary how some people will keep driving with major safety problems.


Get your wrenches out and try this...
Drive it and get the brakes dragging. Pull over.
Loosen the fasteners that hold the master cylinder to the brake booster. Loosen them both by about a half dozen turns. Pull the master cylinder away from the booster.

Do the brakes release?

dkyfamily777

I am going to give that a try. And I understand about the rant because there are some crazy people out there and I come to realize people do crazy things that I would never think to do. Thanks for your input so far, Im going to give that a try.