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my thoughts is that this thread is all over the place. it would take a long time to sort through every single post.

that being said I think teh best solution for you halycon is to go to a shop and let them take care of everything. listen to everything they have on the board and go with what you think sounded the best.

 
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It all depends on personal taste, but in my case, I am trying to recreate the original recording in which is in front of you. Rear fill is used to add depth and keep the sound stage off the floor for those with a poor front stage not properly setup. If you amp the rear speakers, it will pull the soundstage to the sides and behind your head. They should not be able to be localized, therefore an amp is not needed. If you do amp them, you will pull the soundstage to the sides and behind your head killing the imaging and wasting your money.

 
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a textbook answer, and almost what i was looking for. lets assume that you are in fact trying to "recreate the exact recording," then there is more to it than *just* stage. accuracy of a speaker is incredibly important, as is transparancy (i still say its an issue with smaller speakers)

That being said, tell me abotu the sound difference between a stock speaker, a pioneer, a JLXR speaker, and a rainbow reference component set. And then tell me which one is best suited for a "proper" rear fill setup and why.

 
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All he needs to do is to take his ears to the audio store and get what his ears like. Plain and simple.

HaLcYoN:

I'd just get what you think sounds the best. Doesn't matter what anyone else says or thinks. No speaker is best unless you think it is. Some guys will go on and on about technical junk and correct one another trying to be the most **** retentive. Your stereo will sound very nice and you won't necessarily know what it's missing because you don't have 50 other cars to compare it to. When I picked out my quarts for the first time (a friend turned me on to them) I went to hifi buys and listend to every component set they had. I knew immediately when I heard the quarts that they were my favorite....just use your ears and leave all the other stuff to the people who install it or whatever...

 
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ahhh yes... trying to recreate the original recording... but heres a nice little something to throw in for ya... the musicians point of view. I dont know if many here have ever written songs or made recordings or played in bands etc., but it gets stupid loud in the studio... ever stood in a room the size of your bedroom with a drumset playing at full blast? add a guitar player with 4 to 8 12's wailing, plus a bassplayer running 8 10's at 800 watts... it gets stupid loud, and the music doesnt really come from in front of you, it almost envelops you... theres nothing like the feel of being surrounded in music... musicians dont get into circles and all face each other. youre on stage, you move around, sometimes you hear the drummer behind you and sometimes in front, or to the left, who knows... all i know is that the musicians that MAKE the music aren't trying to create sound thats good for your "frontstage" or your "rearfill"... thats completely you... i personally refuse to finish a recording until i take it out to my car, and blast it going 90 on the highway with the windows down...

I understand that you dont want music sounding like its from behind you, but in MY opinion, rearfill is gods gift to a stereo.... i like equal sound from front to rear.... thats why they say that the best sounding speaker/setup in the world is the one you think sounds best...

 
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amen ^_^

if this was a 5.1 dolby digital/DTS home theatre system, then i'd of course get alot more power for my front, but since this is my car.. i'd like to be enveloped in sound ^_^

 
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yeah, 5.1 is a different story.. the people talking ARE in front of you...

 
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I gave my opinion, and like I said, the stock speakers are more than enough. If you want to amp your rear fill and/or have a shity front stage, then by all means, go for it, but you should think twice and spend that money on your crappy front stage which made you even consider rear fill in the first place.

WhiteRabbit: You need to get off your high horse cause your arn't gonna teach me anything I don't already know. Just cause I am new posting here don't mean **** about my car audio knowledge. If you think new speakers for rear fill are needed, go for it. We all have different taste and just cause you are so hooked on rear fill don't me I am... I am not goona waste mine time answer your little stupid test questions to prove myself worthy enough for ya.

 
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By the way, for all you who doubt me, lets go to some SQ comps and let the judge and RTA do the talking. I'll put money on it that I will score higher with my stock rear speakers running off the HU than those of you who are so hooked on rear fill.

Back to my original statement, it's all in the install! And for all the true audiophiles out there, they will agree...

 
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It's not all in the install....but when it comes to high end equipment, Like MBQ Q series, Focal Utopia's CDT's, Rainbow pro's, Oz Audio Matrix and so on....the speakers themselves won't make much difference.....this is where install makes it or breaks it....Equipment is 50% install is 50%......when your dealing with all high high end stuff. you have a 45%+ base..the rest is install and tweaking..

 
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Screw a judge and a Real Time Analyzer... screw comps... theres 2 different things in this world... how its "supposed" to sound according to these judges and machines, and how I like it... I'll be the first to admit that you know more that I do in this field, but I'll also tell you that I could probably do an install that I personally would enjoy better than anyone in the world, because I know how to correctly install, and because I know my own tastes... I dont need a judge and a machine to tell me what sounds better... if that were true the whole world would be running the identical setup...

 
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calm down man. you dont have to prove yourself to me, but you should think twice before spreakding lies on a forum. thats irresponsible.

and i dont run rear speakers at all in my car. none.

and if we all have different taste, then why cant some get new speakers, others run none, and you have yoru stocks? im saying that for ACCURATE SOUND REPRODUCTION stock speakers that might be playing innacurately arent gonna do jack for your sound FORGET ABOUT THE STAGE! your stage means nothing if the speakers cant play it accurately to begine with. im not saying the stocks are innacurate, im saying that its POSSIBLE.

and i quite frankly dont appreciate your rudeness to me. I prefer to ask questions so you discover answers for yourself. i could tell you everything thats incorrect about what you say and repair it, but that would be irresponsible of ME. im not here to bottle feed you solutions, im here to let you come up with yoru own.

i think your attitude sucks, and if you want to continue posting here, i think you should readjust yoru attitude.

 
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if its just opinion, then dont tote it as fact. make sure its understood its just opinion, then shut the **** up when i tell you its factually wrong, only opinion.

 
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ill take that bet...... My car has a stage that plays down to 50 Hz (can you say bass up front?) with no subbass will meter 130, and kickpanels that have a dead center in teh middle of the car. the recordings are dead accurate, and my components are of the highest quality and have provent themselves time and time again in home theater stages, much less car stages.

is it time to remove yoru foot from your mouth yet? id highly suggest you think about what you say before you say it, especially on a forum with people who are very picky about misinformation and lies.

 
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goodnight.

 
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This is turning into a pissing contest where contestants are too embarassed to whip it out so they trying using their brains...

 
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Where is Rodney King and Reginald Deny when you need them??? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG]

 
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How am I spreading lies on the forum? What is one statement I said that aint true? If you are the god to all these people that don't know **** about audio, then you better get use to the fact that I know what I am talking about and will post when and as much as I like. Hate to tell ya but there will always be someone smarter and better than you...

And in my original statement, I said it is all personal taste... Therefore get off my ***... About my system, I will put it up against yours anyday. I could care less if you spent $7000 on your over priced focals...

By the way, none of these comments are meant toward anyone but WhiteRabbit. if you think I should stop posting and/or change my attitude, then don't reply to my post like I don't know what I am talking about. Re-read your own post and take your own advice buddy...

 
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and rabbit makes another friend...

You 2 can argue all day untill your blue in the face..like rabbit and I allready do...but keep it civil and technical...don't get into personal pissing contests or flame wars and it's all good... Different points of view and arguing are the best ways to pick up and refine yur own knowledge. Treat it that way and it's all the more welcome. Turn it petty and wear out your welcome quickly.

As for both of you, including myself. The new civics and RSX's uses the plastic mterial for it's interior which makes it difficult in the extreme to get proper imaging and staging without certain blank spots or odd acoustical effects like hearing G flat notes from behind your head, but everything else is dead on. Short of coating your plastic panels in tweed or acoustical absorbing foam no onein a 7th gen civic or RSX is gonna make it to world finals unless their friends with a judge, or their interior looks like a suit a pimp would wear out of the 70's.. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]...

 
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kinda like my trunk =)

 
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Well I am oficially done with the arguing, especially now that I pretty much assume he argues with everyone. This all started with me saying "the stock speakers are more than enough for rear fill running off a HU". Maybe I should go write up a test for whiterabbit on why new speakers are needed for rear fill, and then talk **** when he doesn't take is precious time to go in depth to suit my needs. From the way I take it, he has no clue what he is talking about, and is trying to find out through me, but at the same time trying to make it look like he knows what he is talking about. Oh well, I was pointed to this forum from some people at an audio forum who were talking **** about whiterabit and a few others on a debate in which know of them knew what the hell they were talking bout but were all argueing, each thinking they know.

 
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Oh really? I'll keep you posted of my progress next season!

 
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Good luck...Don!!!!! I'd be there with you if I could find another job that would find me time off!!...

I'm sure you've experienced on odd occasions the phantom imaging though?

 
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Im flattered. i guess im famous too

I think mo said it best. please stop.

 
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Please stop what?[IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG]

 
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making personal attacks when all you need to do is to refute the information. ive already made claims that volume is meaningless when the sound is innacurate. this proves that stock rear speakers on head unit power, while being adequate from a soundstage point of view, is not adequate for "recreating the recording" beucase it is innacurate. like i said before, you could have the best stage in the world in yoru car, if you are running speakers that sound crappy, then your car sounds crappy.

the best components? the ones you like best.

the best stage? the one that YOU like best.

recreating the original recording? that is anything BUT subjective. you are not creating what YOU want, you are creating what teh recording studio INTENDED you to hear. and that is as objective as it gets.

I didnt want to give you that outright because you dont leartn anything by it, nor does anyone here. many people here are just going to regurgitate this post like you have of others, saying stock rears on radio power are fine for a stage. noone's understanding will be increased, nor enjoyment of the hobby.

And this is why 90% of everything you read on an audio forum is misinformation. and this is also the source of your inaccuracies when you asked me to point out what you said was flase. there it is.

please stop what? please stop making personal attacks against me, and if you want to put me down, do it by using accurate autosound information, not by attacking me. you are right, i refute pretty much everyone here, and its all in the name of dicovering what really is, what is true, and what is neccesary.

I talk to people like you almost every day, and quite frankly, the only think you havent said to me that everyone else usually does is "ive been in the industry for 5 years now, so I think i know what im talking about. your full of it." id rather not hear this form you, so i will repeat. please stop.

 
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If you want people to learn, maybe you should take a different approach at the way you are teaching

You come off as trying to be some audio guru, in which I can clearly see you arn't...

Back on topic now, I'm done...

 
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I am going to stick my head where it doesn't belong.

Anyhow, I have been reading and learning a little bit from all the these posts. Personally, I like just having my front speakers.

My point:

A good debate is a learning experience for everyone involved. Just debate the issues at hand and leave the personal attacks out of it.

 
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That is quite possibly the stupidest, and most conceited line i have ever seen... I know that faintreality probably knows alot more than i do... but that quote is just horrible... and all i wanted was to find out what kinds of components and 6x9's i should get.

and so to end this post now here are my final choices!!:

for my components:
Alpine Type-X series: SPX-177A
6x9:
Alpine Type-R series: SPR-694A

I've usually always enjoyed listening to alpines. I don't know why i sort of forgot about them... [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]
thx for all ur help... and please stop the arguing..