odysseus

I bought my 2006 Civic LX sedan at 61K miles. Have only had oil changed at the local Honda dealer (First Texas Honda in Austin, TX). Brought it in today to have the oil changed and some other minor maintenance performed. The rep informed me that when they were removing the oil pan bolt, the threads came with it, necessitating an oil pan replacement ($538); he showed me the detached threads, which literally were wrapped around the bolt. He says that this happens sometimes because the oil pan is made from aluminum.

I've never seen or heard of this before. Should I suspect foul play?

odysseus

Perhaps it would be less inflammatory to ask, isn't it possible that someone overtightened the oil pan bolt when they changed the oil the last time?

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I wonder if someone got their lefty loosey mixed up with their righty tighty!

ezone

I see it a lot, and overtightening is usually blamed.

The previous oil changer is usually blamed when the threads spiral out with the bolt, IF the current person actually loosened the bolt, instead of tightening it first then saying OOPS and then doing it right.
A lifetime of overtightening could have done it too.

Aluminum is pretty unforgiving when it comes to getting things TOO tight.


Short answer: Most places employ ROOKIES as oil changers. You are probably a victim of those rookies, either in the past or now....

Properly torquing the drainplug and using a fresh seal washer at each oil change, these can last a lifetime without thread problems.




Here's the other angle: IMHO: If you can prove all your oil changes were done at this dealer, then they should step up and accept that their employees caused it. And fix the pan on their dime. A pan does not just wear out with proper normal use.
I know our shop has taken care of good customers like this.

odysseus

Well, although it's true, it's impossible to prove that all of my oil changes were done at the dealer (I mean, I could always hide a change at Jiffy Lube -- oil changes aren't recorded in perpetuity somewhere, are they?)

So do you disagree with this (about Honda's steel oil pans), namely:

Matt_75

IMHO I find that second quoted paragraph to be a bunch of BS and good marketing to convince you how bad your oil pan is so you buy one from them. I have a 2002 civic ex and have changed my own oil for years and have routinely torqued my oil pan bolt to 29 ft/lbs and used a new washer every time with out issue. The steel pan calls for 33 ft/lbs.

ezone

The service personnel should be able to tell at a glance if you had the majority of your services done with them. Records would show every 3k, 5k, 7k ish, whatever if you did your services that way.

But you are going to cost them money. they aren't going to want to admit fault, it comes out of their bottom line.


I misunderstood the first post (again, I can't read), I originally thought the car only has 61k on it now and had been serviced at the dealer since new..
Not?
You probably don't have a leg to stand on as far as getting the dealer to step up. You own a used car, and all the problems that go with a used car are now yours too.

No. A dealership can't even see what another dealership did unless it was a warranty claim paid by the manufacturer.
Forget about the dealer seeing anything done at aJizzyLube.


Some yes, some no.
(I now see that Matt75 replied with the BS card already. Thanks.)

Here's a thing: Every JizzyLube and WallyWorld in the country has managers that don't really want to pay for yet another cashed engine that left with a loose drain plug.....so they continually scream at the low paid help to "GET THE DAMN PLUG TIGHT OR YOU GET FIRED!!!!"
So low wage flunkies WILL get that plug tight if it is the last thing they ever do in their pathetic lives. (Except for the plugs they don't get tight.)
Do you think they get paid enough to own a torque wrench? Do you REALLY think any of them care at all about anything but breaktime, pay day, and 30 packs of Natty Light?





If I can make many engines last for 200 or 300,000 + miles without having to replace a pan, then I think everyone should be able to do the same. It's not rocket science, it's attention to detail. (Yes, even at a dealer some people actually keep returning that long.....and some keep asking for the same person over and over.)

IIRC the last time this subject came up, the spec was 33 ft/lb on whatever Honda I looked up at the time. Irrelevant, I know.
I tighten it by hand, and that day I actually measured what the torque was after I did it. Was within like 2 ft/lbs of spec.




Bullpoop. This happens to any manufacturers' drainplugs when repeatedly overtightened IMO.

Your issue was not with the plug itself. Yours had threads come out of the aluminum pan.
I like the use of the words "sometimes" and "rarely". Leaves the author an out.


Can't speak for all the brands listed, but I know Mazda used to have a steel thread insert in their aluminum oil pans. IDK if this is still true now.
Honda does not. I think they should.
If I notice a drainplug that turns too tight all the way out, or has threads pulled/deformed from overtightening, it is written on the back of the work order. (I like how that is worded.)
This is my CYA too. An estimate is written to address the issue, the service adviser presents the estimate to the customer. If the customer does not want to do anything at that time, it's not my problem.
The problem cars have been in the hands of someone other than "us" 99% of the time. ("Us" does not include most of the rookies that change oil. Some cars and customers always return to certain techs here. It's like some sort of weird marriage LOL.)




The original post in this thread said the drainplug came out with the aluminum threads still wrapped around the plug.

IMO this damage was caused by a human--- either right then, the last time the plug was overtightened, or from the lifetime of overtightening.




If your dealer is decent, they will have the Time-Sert tools to install a steel thread repair insert into the aluminum oil pan, and it should cost much less than replacing a pan. (I think we charged about $140ish the last time on a V6 engine, but each situation is different. Gotta make some room for the tools to get the job done.)
If they don't have the kit, call the next dealer. Someone should have the kit. I'll say it IS easy to screw up the installation though, it's not something I'd let a rookie do.
It's not a cheap kit, so I'd expect some won't have it. But I work for a bunch of tightwads, and we have the kit.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

first check how thick the arm of the guy changing the oil is. if arm is thicker than your thigh talk nicely to the manager