Rep Power: 0

2001 Civic EX
I have one of those anti-theft keys/chips that you have to 'plug in' before you can start the car. It was acting up a bit so I researched how to just get rid of or bypass the system as I don't really care for it anymore but I couldn't find any info on it.

I like tinkering with things so I took the unit apart and inspected it. I saw that the the anti-theft unit was installed by simply interrupting a black wire w/ white stripe coming from the steering column. Here is a diagram of the wiring:


I thought that just by re-connecting the black wire w/ white stripe I would be able to get rid of the anti-theft system so I disconnected the wire harness and stuck a bent copper wire into one end of it, therefore completing the circuit between the red and orange wires, see pictures:




I put the key in the ignition and turned... and voila, it worked! I turned the car off and tried again a few minutes later and it worked again! I thought I was golden. I let the car sit overnight and this morning I want to finish the job correctly by cutting off the wire harness, stripping the orange and red wires, and putting them together with a wire nut. Then I went to turn on the car and it wouldn't start :-( It sounded like it was trying to start but it just wouldn't... the dials on the dashboard were going pretty wacky.

Any ideas as to what I screwed up??

Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 518

You ran the battery dead?

You got a crappy connection in your repairs?

 
Rep Power: 0

The battery is fine - I checked the voltage, it was at 12.5v.

The connections are fine too. So whether the copper wire is connecting the red and orange wire via the harness, or if the wires are spliced together with a wire nut, or if the entire anti-theft unit is reinstalled exactly the way it was originally... I get the same result... the car tries to turn over but doesn't. During my research today I came across this Honda Service Bulletin: http://www.hondalac.com/service/Bulletins/x01-053e.pdf
which states on Page 2: "If you try to start the engine with a nonprogrammed ignition key, the engine cranks, but it cannot start."

I am using a programmed ignition key, but I think I screwed something up while tampering with the anti-theft device. Maybe the anti-theft device is linked to the Immobilizer System? The anti-theft device appears to be after-market so I'm not sure how it's related to the Immobilizer System.

May the Immobilizer System/ECM detected that I was tampering with things? Is that possible? Is there a way to reset that? Maybe with the 'brake code'?

Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 518

If the immobilizer is part of the problem, you should have the green key light blinking angrily at you on the dash while cranking it.....And it would crank, run, then die at 2 seconds time.



If the immobilizer is not activated and is working correctly, the light comes on for about 2 seconds then goes out while cranking.
It should blink a few times after you shut the key off too (when normal).


How many other wires are involved with this anti-theft device?
Your terms are ambiguous. Can you describe the problem better?

 
Rep Power: 0

If you look at the diagram in the OP it shows all of the anti-theft device wires except for one which I think is just a ground because it is connected to a bolt on the car's chassis.

Sorry about the ambiguity. The car turns over but it doesn't start. It seems to me like this description which wrote for a post back in March: "You can't jumper it, the PCM has to see a valid input from the immobilizer control unit. If no valid input, the fuel injectors are shut down and engine will not run."

Maybe the Immobilizer System/ECM detected that I was tampering with things? Is that possible? Is there a way to reset that? Maybe with the 'brake code'?

 
Rep Power: 0

The green key light blinks continuously while cranking and then after I'm done trying to crank :-/ It doesn't stop blinking until I remove the key from the ignition.

 
Rep Power: 518

If none of the immobilizer wiring (7 circuits in the immobi plug) is involved in the antitheft device then it doesn't make sense to me that it would get activated now.

OTOH if there are other wires besides the starter interrupt (large b/w wire) then it makes perfect sense.


"Cranks", not "turns over".
Or "runs", not "turns over".
'Turns over' is used far too freely and means different things to different people. Ambiguous.

With the first statement, I had no clue if the starter motor worked correctly, or if the issue is about the starter working fine but the engine is not able to run. The second isn't much better. I get it though.


I think that was about someone was wanting to bypass the immobilizer by connecting a bunch of wires together.

Yes that's the basic operation, but that same scenario can also happen when the engine can't run for many other reasons too.

Timing belt jumped time? It may start/run 2 seconds/die.....About the same as above, but without the angry flashing green key light. See?

I'd look to see if there is more involved that you may have missed, and I'd look closely at all the wiring for the immobi system.

Um...Fuses 6 and 9 in the dash, and 17 in the engine compartment

You made it mad!


There isn't normally a need for reprogramming (reset?), there is a problem that needs fixed.
NOTE: Low battery voltage during cranking can cause problems like this. Just because your battery shows 12.5 at rest doesn't mean all is well.

That's not a way to reset anything. That's a method to temporarily bypass the system so it can be driven directly to a dealer for programming.

 
Rep Power: 0

I'm not sure if any of the immobilizer wiring is involved in the antitheft device. The anti-theft device is at the steering column and the immobi system is behind the glove box, so unless the black w/ white stripe wire which is interrupted from the anti-theft device also runs over to the immobi system before reaching its final destination, I don't see any other way for them to be connected. If that black w/ white stripe wire does go to the immobi system the I assume the immobi system realized I was tampering with something and 'turned itself on' or whatever to start 'immobilizing' !!

Sorry again, I get it now. The car definitely cranks but does not turn over. During more attempts to get it started last night I was getting less and less cranking until eventually there was no cranking and it was just clicking. To me this meant the battery was dying. I tried again this morning after checking all of the fuses and the first time it cranked a little and second time no crank. I attached jumper cables to a running/functional car and tried again and it was cranking with gusto but still no turning over or running.... sounded very close though!!

Yeah I checked those... and every other fuse just to be sure. All are in tact.

Yes, I made it very mad... it has to be the immobi system!

My plan is to get the brake code from a honda dealership and see if I can start the car that way. If it starts that would absolutely narrow the issue down to the immobi system right?!

 
Rep Power: 518

The B/W wire is for the starter, and it is working.

Concentrate on the flashing green key light for the immobilizer, that appears to be why it doesn't run because you said the green key light flashes while you crank it, correct?






The immobi control unit and receiver are wrapped around the key cylinder on the steering column lock. It has a green 7 wire connector.

The PCM is up behind the glovebox.

AAAAARGH! *pulls hair out*

Cranks, but does not run.


Does it run for 2 seconds-- then die?
Yup. Get a battery charger on it?


Maybe. For one part or another.
I would first do voltmeter/wiring checks at the immobi unit on the column.



Wait a sec.... What about this?Anything going on there?

 
Rep Power: 0

Sorry Sorry Sorry!! Cranks but does not runnnnnnnnn!!!

No it does not turn over... j/k... RUN at all... it just cranks.

Do jumper cables to my other functional running car count as a battery charger?

Ok good.

I think this was caused by the battery dying. When the battery is jumped to my other car I don't think this happens.

Ok I have a multimeter, am I checking for voltage while the key is in the I or II position or when there's no key in the ignition or what?

I will visually inspect the 7 wire harness of the immobi unit. Sorry I thought the immobi was behind the glove box, now I understand that just the ECM/PCM is back there.

I'm also starting to research 'remote start installations' because it deals with bypassing the immobi. Not that I want to install a remote-start, but it's helping me diagnose what my potential problem is.

Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 518

No. If the battery ran down, it needs recharged at a slow rate over a period of time.

Jumper cables may only put a surface charge on the battery if anything. Depends on how long you left it connected to the other running car though.



#7 white/red is power all the time
#6 yel/blk is power only when the PCM turns on main relay #1
#5 operates the green light
#4 goes to park brake switch
#3 goes to the OBD2 DLC
#2 communication to the PCM
#1 brown/yellow is a ground


The PCM is part of the immobi system though.


Pic of the immobi control unit w/ring:



Most I have seen installed just cut and splice to tap a circuit in right at the 7 wire connector.

 
Rep Power: 0

I visually inspected the immobi unit and it looks fine. No damaged wires.

Only other update I have for now is that when I put the key in and turn it to Accessory - II... the green key light comes on for a few seconds and then goes away... telling me that it DOES recognize the key. Then when I turn it to Ignition - III... the car cranks but does not start (sounds soooo close) and the green key light starts flashes and does NOT stop flashing until I take the key out of the ignition.

My manual says that if the car didn't recognize the key that light would flash in the Accessory - II position.

Now I'm just waiting for Honda to call me back with the Immobilizer Brake Code to see if I can start the car that way. Otherwise I don't know what else to do.

 
Rep Power: 518

So it loses its freekin mind between ignition ON and cranking?? Is the battery fully charged yet? (thinking maybe system voltage is dropping when the load of the starter is applied to the battery)
Wait, no, you said it wouldn't start even with jumper cables........
Is the main relay #1 opening during cranking, loss of voltage on wire #6 at the immobi ring connector?

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok I got the immobilization brake code and tried it and the car still wouldn't start. I'm pretty sure I did it correctly too because the green key light stayed on solid while I was doing the code and then after the 5th digit it blinked 3 times just like I've read it's supposed to. crank crank crank but no start. Sounds so close still... in fact I think it did actually start for a second and then shut off like you said it might.

And I did this with the jumper cables to make sure it would have juice. Gauges are not fluttering when I have the jumper cables attached.

I don't know... this stuff is over my head. I think it may be time to get it towed to the shop