Rep Power: 337

"Sorry I never replied...I have been busy with all sorts of projects and wanted to give your question a bit of time so I could respond thoroughly.

At the risk of being to elementary, let's start with what a short shifter actually does. Basically a shifter is a lever that allows the motion of your hand on the shift **** to be translated into movement of the shifter rods and fork causing the shafts of the transmission to move such that different gears within the transmission are made to engage. The length of the shifter from the shift **** (point A) to the pivot point (point B) relative to the length of the shifter from the pivot point (B) to the point where it connects to the shifter rods (point C) determines what sort of mechanical advantage your hand motions have on the movement of the shifter rods. A greater distance between points A and B relative to the distance between points B and C will result in a greater mechanical advantage which means that less force needs to be exerted on point A to move point C, but at the expense of having to move point A farther relative to the movement of point C. A short shifter increases the length between point B and C which decreases the mechanical advantage requiring more force at point A, but decreases the distance A must be moved to reap the same amount of movement at point C.

That's the physics of it, and if that were the only constraint on the mechanics of changing gears, then this would always allow you to shift more quickly assuming you had the strength to apply the additional force required by the lower mechanical advantage - it will take you less time to move the shift **** a shorter distance. Unfortunately the movement of the shifter is only part of the equation.

Within the transmission Honda utilize synchronizers (a.k.a., synchros) to help the gears mesh smoothly. In a nutshell the purpose of the synchros is to bring the rotational speed of two gears that are about to be engaged as close as possible to help ensure that the teeth of the gears can engage with minimal chance for grinding (when several teeth of one gear partially engage and then slip past a tooth of the other gear). So now we add to the equation not only the time it takes for the shifter to be moved, but also the time it takes for the synchros to bring the meshing gears up to the same rotational speed.

If the movement of the shifter (which translates into the movement of the shift rods and forks which moves the transmission shafts to cause different gears to engage) is quicker than the synchros are able to bring the meshing gears up to speed then you run the risk of grinding gears and putting excessive wear on the synchros. Over time this will wear out the synchros so that they are unable to do their jobs of bringing the tranny gears up to the same speed, which will lead to more grinding of gears, which will lead to increased wear of the gear teeth, which will eventually lead to stripping gears on the tranny.

What's more, unsynchronized gears take longer to engage than synchronized ones, so the actual shift to the new gears actually takes longer than it would if the synchros were allowed to do their jobs. What happens is that the teeth of the transmission gears are being used to synchronize the speeds of the gears, and since they are only in contact for part of the time until the gears are engaged, it takes a little bit longer for the gears to match up. There are other factors too like increased heat in the gears, additional driveline shock, uneven resistance to the engine's torque, etc.

So you see, being able to shift faster than the tranmission can actually result in less effectivie and efficient transmission of the power of the engine to the drive wheels. If you can shift too fast, but you move your hand more slowly so that you allow the gears to synchronize, then the analogy of "letting the garage door open" makes sense - you are limited to how fast you can shift from gear to gear by speed of the synchros.

Make sense? Hope so."

 
Rep Power: 0

my auto will still shift quicker than yours, shortshifter or stock [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 0

and yet the manual stock is faster vs the auto stock. just look at the guy who thought hed be running 15.9s with a couple mods and found out that all he could pull at the track was a solid 18.0. woot!

 
Rep Power: 0

Now the question is, Does the average individual with a short throw shifter do it fast enough so that his synchros dont have enough time to do their job?

Also something to note is that alot of people seem to like the way the aftermarket short throw's feel as opposed to stock.. so it's not just a matter of shifting speed.. it's also shifting "quality" that gets people intersted in them.

Just some thoughts...
-Numinous

 
Rep Power: 0

i own a stick but the auto will burn another car if they both were running nitrous plus they can make theirs faster by upgrading their tranny they can have it change gears at a certain rpm every time auto are not all that bad

 
Rep Power: 337

num, you just hit on the exact debate that we've been going at over and over again.

I have a shortshifter, actually, i did it for the feel. some people think that they make you faster tho. thats what has to be killed. just think about the import scene when it started! ppl talking about how fast their cars would be after a wing and bodykit, neons and such. that didnt take long to kill as an idea!

the SS debate is a bit harder, tho..... I messaged this guy a long time ago about this, actually, but couldnt use this response cause i was banned before i could get it. new IP, no longer baned =)

but yeah, if you guys go to any other civic forums, i guess you gotta check your use of the "r" word [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] you might get banned =p

 
Rep Power: 0

Excuse me teacher, I don't have the questions section at the end of the chapter.

 
Rep Power: 337

[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 0

sorry if im clueless, but what "r" word, the only thing i can think of is rice? and what did the second last post mean, sorry if its jsut over my head, but maybe w/ a hint ill get it

 
Rep Power: 368

hey whiterabbit.. what kinda SS you got?

I got my Neuspeed SS adapter for the feel too... I was interested in how it'll change my shifting feel...

i like the crispier shift feel... its a bit stiffer but now I'm either used to it, or it get better...

and I definitely know when I'm in gear...


but the thing I dont like is how its harder to shift from 2nd to 5th, or vice versa....

truth be told, your explaination on what a short shifter does confuses me a bit... lol.

I'm still debating myself if this was a good investment.. so far I dont think it is though.. 90 bucks for a piece of metal seems a bit stupid. sigh.

I'm finding out the hard way that, a lot of stock parts are better than aftermarket parts...

 
Rep Power: 337

i cut 2 inches from my stock and welded the threads back on. cost $10 at a muffler shop and works wonderfully.

its true that it takes more force this way to shift, i figure those who b i t c h about that are just weaklings who shouldnt be driving a stick anyways, you got the right idea [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

yes, the r word was rice. I would make posts that explain stuff like exactly why wiper nozzle lights are rice, and how to minimize teh ricyness of that particular modification. Then i would go into detail about how to hook them up to yoru blinkers, that way they only turn on with teh signals. then teh mods would start to send me emails saying i wasnt following forum rules [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

as to justifying the cost, that is why I did what I did. I cannot justify $90 or even $60 for a SS. but 10 bucks and 15 minutes at a muffler shop? it feels great, and looks nice, so how can anyone say that was a poor investment?