DriftR

As the title says, thats what i did. I'm also turbo'd before.
My setup on my A1 was turbo with 310CC injectors and emanage. No primary 02. It ran great...really great. NO lmp mode or anything.

My current setup is a A2 with the same turbo and same injectors and same emanage map. NO primary AND secondary O2. It runs extremely rich at about 9-10 AFR throughout the range and idle and i can't do anything about it, even after trying to lean it out with all the tricks in emanage.

Heres the odd case though, the a2 ecu i bought from ebay turned out to be fried so i just pluged in my a1 ecu. Theoretically, it should be pretty close w/o Vtec of course..... but it does not explain the SUPER SUPER rich readings. And why can I not do anything about it emanage? Its as it the ecu is doin something wierd and ignoring all maps and signals from the engine (limp mode?)

if so, why did this not happen before with my old setup using the same a1 ecu?

skipbarber

iTrader: (34)

you only have one set of intake valves opening now, so you have more fuel with less air going in, which is probably the reason why you're running richer than before. and with no o2 sensors, you took away the cars ability to see if it's running rich or lean to begin with, so it's going by all the other sensors, but it's still entirely in the dark. the TPS, ECT, MAP, CKP, and CMP can only give the ecu it's running parameters, but without the o2's online, it doesnt know if the fuel trims and ignition timing is correct, so it just defaults to rich.

plug your o2's back in, youre doing nothing but polluting the **** out of the earth for no reason. your primary HO2S is one of the most important sensors in the car besides the MAP and CKP, it just wont run right without it.

DriftR

I know what you are saying. But why is there no change in the AFR even when I adjust the injector correction factor and increase the -ve vaules in the airflow map? That should do the trick of trimming the fuel without the data from the 02 sensors (which is how i ran before , a steady 14.5-14.8) since absence of these 02 sensors it runs entirely on open loop (the base map and data on other engine sensors)

Back to your answer, sounds kinda dumb on my part but, simply putting in the correct A2 ecu should but all the process back to normal? I didnt know there was such a HUGE difference in intake valve action when off the VTEC cam profile compared to the A1...... Can you elaborate?

FoSho

HUGE Difference. One has vtec-e and the other does not.
Vtec-e has one intake valve open & the second one half open until vtec is engaged.........D17a2 is going to be different......skip nailed it on the head!

02BLKCIVIC

iTrader: (8)

Very well said skip!

DriftR

Makes sense. I'm getting the A2 ecu reflashed and put in today, I'll let you guys know what happens. However the fuel triming that isn't being contolled by the emanage isn't addressed...I wonder why its doing that.??

familycar

iTrader: (4)

because you can only pull so much fuel with the e-manage. this is a limiting factor when running a piggyback

cgomes

LOL I tried But i only understood 2 words of what was said in this entire thread

02BLKCIVIC

iTrader: (8)

lol...

DriftR

Well, I managed to limp my car to a Honda dealership and explained the sitch. What did they do? Throw my car out after 1 hr saying that the ecu's been reflashed and its still running the way it came in. The head mechanic says he refuses to do anything further. They said they reflashed BOTH ecu's but left the A1 connected. When I tried to connect the A2 ecu in the parking lot of the place, it didn't even start - which means they did NOTHING to the A2 ecu. ...went back in and was told "too bad, sorry, BYE!"

DriftR

The guys who did manage to swap the A2 from an A1, what did you do with the secondary 02 sensor wires? I notice that there are wires that splice between the brn/yel wire (logic ground) from connector A and the primary and secondary 02 plugs on the A1 harness. We all know that the A2 harness doesn't have the secondary 02 plug on the harness.
Did you guys just pin the 4 wires from the A1 plug right into it's place on connector E or did you guys also add in the proper slpicing into the logic ground wire as well? What does that logic ground do anyways? It seems to end a particular sensor plug....whether it really grounds there or not, i dunno.

Mr_Plenty

iTrader: (3)

all this drama for what? GET KPRO!!!!!!!!!!! fuc a emanage

DriftR

I appreiate your attempt at a solution/answer but I what I was refering to in terms of the logic wire has nothing to do with the emanage and is an issue regardless of the ecu you are using for people switching from an A1 to A2

DriftR

Well, I managed to get my A2 ecu reflashed at different honda, and guess what...IT starts as expected, but it runs EXCACTLY the same way as when I had my A1 ecu in there! GRRRRrrrr! So friggin rich and then leans out at anything past 20% throttle. I set my emanage to 0 on everything and put my old stock injectors in and it still runs super rich. Any A1->A2 swappers run into this problem? I really can't drive this thing at all. I wish I kept my A1 motor...

1sykcivic

iTrader: (8)

try posting on a ep3 fourm, they might have some answers or even rsxclub

familycar

iTrader: (4)

why would he do that he has a d17.....


talk to Andyman he used the manage for a long time. i am sure he can help with this.

DriftR

Yeah I know, but I'd hate to bug the guy, he probably has 20000 people askin him suff all the time. Anyways, I also had thr emanage for more than a year with my turbo setup on my A1 with not problems...

Now, I'm gettin DTC P1298, P1129 and P1505(WTF?). The P1129(map higher than expected) seems to point to my running rich issues but i don't know how to fix that cuz i put in my other MAP sensor and all wiring looks good. 1298(electrical load detector high) and 1129 might go together pointing out that there is a wire short somwhere..... anyone know?? Andyman?

ES2Guy

referring back to what skip said, why don't you have the O2 sensors in? Remember, you are trying to fix the issue and he is trying to give you a plausible solution.

familycar

iTrader: (4)

are you running a wideband, if so which one?? If it is a Uego I am pretty sure you can use it as a wide and narrow band and use it as your primary, ditching the secondary o2 isnt soo bad, but your primary is what adds or removes fuel. Your whole rich condition I believe is caused by this. Also the Emanage doesnt know how much fuel its really pulling because there is no sensor to tell it.
You NEED to get an o2 in there and reset your ECU. Let it re-learn and revisit. You are trying to diagnose what sounds like several problems, you cant do that. you have to attack one code at a time. Right now I think installing a primary o2 may cure more than one code. And unless you have a secondary your CEL is going to stay on. You can run simulators if you can find one but only for the secondary, or try the spark plug defouler trick if you dont have a cat. But you MUST have a primary o2 in place!!

DriftR

Problem solved. The P1129 gave all the clues. It turns out there was a short on the map sensor wires when I rewired the emanage harness onto the new A2 harness.

THAT EXPLAINS why no matter what I set the fuel trim to, there was no response. The emanage was sending a voltage to the sensor instead of reading it causing the ECU to totally go berserk by reading the messed up voltages. Thanks for all your suggestions anyways guys!

It runs great again 14.6-14.8 cruise and 12.5 on boost with NO O2 sensors.(I am running a real cat however so i'm not polluting)

wheelspinLX

I dont understand how it could be possible to run with no O2 sensor whatsoever. I guess if your reading AFR you must have a wideband O2 sensor. So... then you ARE running an O2 sensor.

DriftR

Normally, your ECU will run off data from the primary 02 sensor to determine fuel ratio (except under wide open throttle and warmup conditions). But when you pull the senors, the ecu goes into fail safe mode by using data from other engine sensors and your piggy back will alter that data to get the fuel you want.

With your sensors plugged in, your ECU will pretty much compensate whatever you set your map to in the emanage (essentially rendering it usless) and will set your fuel ratios to stioch anyways.

I pulled the sensors so that I am ALWAYS in control of the fuel ratios at all times, not just in WOT mode.
Just read your edit...I am running a WIDEBAND but nothing is plugged into the ECU

bakertime

iTrader: (7)

Interesting...It still seems risky, but an interesting approach nonetheless.

familycar

iTrader: (4)

it is really risky because your ECU cant add fuel if it needs to, your relying on your emanage to do that for you based on its wideband sensor. the emanage only processes signals and alters them to control the output of the ecu. you should still be running o2's or at least a wideband with a narrowband signal to give the ecu the correct reading. right now your making the ecu give a stoich AFR and your pulling fuel with the emanage. the ecu should be in limp mode always in this scenario. with the ecu in limp mode you cant make the adjustments wanted and the emanage is working against the ECU. Timing tables and all are effected in limp mode

DriftR

I might be technically in "fail-safe mode" as they call it and I am aware that the timing will be reduced. In fact I am hoping for that. I welcome reduced timing. All my fuel ratios are exatly what I want it to be. When the o2 is plugged in, I am not in contol at all times (closed loop). With it pulled, it simulates WOT at all times, which is bad for fuel economy - but that is where tuning comes in. THats where you can manipulate map sensor info and actualyl get the AFR you want. Closed loop ( o2 pluged in, narrow throttle) pretty much ignores whatever tuning you do.