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Hey guys,
i have a 2004 Honda Civic LX. 1.7. So I had a leaking head gasket and had the head gasket replaced. Also timing belt timing tensioner water pump and all gaskets. After fix I was burning oil I was a quart low ever 100ish miles. Found out the cam shaft seal was leaking. But also the oil was instantly black. Had the cylinders pressure tested. They were all 4 at 200 +/-5. So I figured it was the valve stem seals. I replaced them and redid the valve cover gasket with the Hondabond in the corners and a new cam shaft seal next to the egr. Engine is running great. Not burning oil to my knowledge. If it is it’s def not as bad as it was... no leaks around valve cover gasket. During the valve stem seal fix I cleaned the oil pan out with kerosene. So now I’m 350 miles post repairs. Like I said engine is running great. 38.9 mpg. Not burning oil to munch knowledge (previously at stop lights I could see the smoke out my back window) it’s snowing so cleaning the bumper to see isn’t happening right now. I checked my oil tonight... not even on the dip stick. Got it filled up. And noticed the oil again was already black... this is a fresh oil change with new filter. No leaks around the valve cover. Or the cam shaft seal. Please can someone help me. I can’t find anything on this forum about the black oil. Or the mysterious missing oil. I was 1.5 quarts low.
My temp gauge started fluctuating. Went from just under half(normal) to 3/4. Luckily we this happened I was with a few miles of home. I shut it off walked home and grabbed my truck and trailer and went and picked it up. And dropped it off at a mechanic shop.
If your coolant is normal, and your not dripping oil, and your young brother is not messing with you by draining some oil while you sleep then your burning that oil and it’s going out the exhaust
Maybe it’s the PCV valve, or the oil control rings are crusted up with deposits, or one of those new stem seals popped off or cracked.
Yes. NAPA rebuilt the head. And I’d like to think if I was burning 1.5 quarts in 300 miles I’d see the smoke out my exhaust right? I sprayed the bottom of the motor today with degreaser and gonna clean it all off. Because there is oil down there. But before the fix the tranny and bottom half of the motor had a lot of oil on it. So I have to get it clean before I can tell if it’s leaking below the valve cover
So ended up finding a buddies buddy. Who is a Honda mechanic for the last 10 years. He said because the new valve stem seals are sealing the piston off properly and the old one weren’t. The oil rigs on the pistons are messed up done. So anyone do this job before? Or had this Eval before.
All plugs have the white ash build up on them from burning oil. Changed them. And 600 miles later white ash build up again. There is no oil leaking. I’m going to be popping the engine open again this weekend. Get the head off. Get the oil pan off. Unbolt each piston push it up enough to change the rings. Use this tool to compress the rings and get the piston back down. For all 4 pistons. Ring kit was on 45 bucks. And I guess my labor is free right. Can’t hurt.
It it has to be the oil rings. The head was at NAPA. Valves are good. Valve guides are good. And stem seals are good. No oil leaks. The coolant leaks.
Your gonna want to actually pull each piston out. The ring grooves are going to caked with deposits as well.
I used some clear water tubing to go over my connecting rod bolts, and that was enough leverage to push my piston s out the top. Hightly recommend cleaning the 1/4 deep band of deposits off the cylinder wall before pushing pistons up.
Putting the balancer with key back in and using the special pulley tool is the simplest way to move the crank back and forth.
I futzed around for long time trying to clock my oil rings correctly, was not till my third piston I realized I should just be installing them in the right spot instead of trying to move them to right spot.
toothpick is a suitable tool to make sure the oil holes are open.
Love your idea of just replacing the rings, the zig zag oil spacer ring sucks to clean when crusted up.
you mentioned coolant leaks, while it’s all apart might be a good time to replace the two o rings on the coolant hard lines. Just a few dollars and a few moments while you have the head off
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 518
Re: Black oil and missing oil
Pull the pistons all the way out. You gotta seriously clean all the carbon out of the ring grooves before installing new rings. Gotta scrape carbon without damaging the grooves (without removing aluminum), which makes it kinda tedious.
Oil ring grooves will be absolutely caked with coked oil, so much they will be completely stuck, you'll have to pry them out.
MAKE SURE YOU MARK EACH PISTON SO IT GOES BACK EXACTLY WHERE IT CAME FROM
don't mix up bearing shells, don't get a piston installed backwards, etc.
Follow instructions on ring install, most aftermarket sets have instructions in the package. Don't install compression rings upside down! Make sure each ring gap is clocked according to instructions
Typical gap clocking (random google image search):
you could modify pistons with few holes in the oil ring groove.. i started a post in advance engine for a debate.. curious what the other people will say.
I kno we’re starting to get out of my original topic. But realistically using the same pistons. All new rings. Compression oil and that crinkled one. Pulling them all the way out. Cleaning them good. How hard is this job. Never done anything with pistons. Everything else. But pistons. No idea about anything to do bearing shells. I understand correct piston with same hole. And making sure they go in facing the same way. And getting the rings on looks easy enough with the ring plier tool. Can anyone direct me to a write up if there is one on this job. Looked briefly. But I’ve been pulling a lot of overtime so I can take 2 days off in a row with my weekend and try and knock this job out. Everything else in the car is awesome. Never been a car guy. I have a 2017 powerstroke. Always been a truck person. But I love this little thing. And I believe in karma so I can’t sell this to someone and not tell them. And if I do then I’ll lose my a$$ in money.
Thank you everyone for the help.
UPDATE
so haven’t started yet. Just been adding oil. Noticed today my coolant res was empty. I’m not seeing any leaks under neath. I park in my garage. And there is no milky oil. So where do you guys think this is going. I’m honestly getting scared to dump more money into this and find out the block is cracked or something. And where are the two O-rings that someone said to replace on the hard lines.
So im using a quart of oil every 100ish miles. Again no leaks... I feel like that’s burning a lot. The other reason I haven’t started yet. Is because I’m fine in understanding pulling the pistons out. Cleaning where all the rings go. Replacing all the rings. And cleaning the holes that get clogged at the bottom of the pistons. But the bearing things at the bottom. Reinstalling them I have zero clue about. And someone mentioned I had to get the cylinders honed. If I’m putting the same pistons back in. Do I need to do anything with the cylinders. And can anyone tell me what I have to do with the bearings. I understand that there is two half’s to each. I kno they will fall off when I unbolt the piston and remove the piston. But reinstalling Idk what to do with them.
Thanks for the help
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 32,017
Likes: 256
From: Midwest. Aiming about mid-chest
Rep Power: 518
Re: Black oil and missing oil
Noticed today my coolant res was empty.
When was the last time you knew it was correctly filled?
And there is no milky oil.
There never is.
and find out the block is cracked or something.
I've not seen one here in 15 years.
And where are the two O-rings that someone said to replace on the hard lines.
No clue what "hard lines" means. AC pipes? IDK.
So im using a quart of oil every 100ish miles. Again no leaks... I feel like that’s burning a lot.
Ayup that's a lot IMO.
But the bearing things at the bottom. Reinstalling them I have zero clue about. And can anyone tell me what I have to do with the bearings. I understand that there is two half’s to each. I kno they will fall off when I unbolt the piston and remove the piston. But reinstalling Idk what to do with them.
Google it
They are inserts, plan on reusing if not damaged. They don't always fall free, they usually stay in place but CAN come out of place...... They fit by interference, the curve of the bearing shell is slightly larger than the curve of the connecting rod end, simply push into place with both thumbs until seated and it (usually) stays just fine during assembly.
And someone mentioned I had to get the cylinders honed. If I’m putting the same pistons back in. Do I need to do anything with the cylinders.
I don't do it unless walls are scored deep enough to hang a fingernail in (BTW correctly cleaning it up after honing is a huge PITA), and when doing ring jobs under warranty we absolutely do not. Install rings and pistons and go.
If the original crosshatch honing marks are still visible that's significant proof the walls are not distorted.
Ezone
leaking the block in the car what do I need to do to get the oil pan out? So I can access the bottom of the pistons to unbolt. In a few pics I’ve seen there looks to be something over the piston rods. Maybe something oil related. Does that remove or do I work around that to unbolt the pistons
The thing over your pistons is the head, the thing under your pistons is the crankshaft and the brace that holds the crankshaft and main bearings in place.
Hightly suggest leaving that alone, you can rotate the crank and get good angle on th connecting rod nuts right through middle and off to side. Once you take off the nuts, crank it back some towards top so you have room to pull the bottom of the connecting rod off.
I can’t tell you if my process worked yet as I still have not started my engine, but removing the nuts, ever so gently tapping on one of the studs till the bottom cap loosened and then ever so carefully pulling it out seemed pretty easy.
once out slid some tubing over the studs so they didn’t hit the crank and then pushed them out.
If you are hearing a twang sound and the piston seems stuck, most likely you don’t have the rod Vertical enough to go into the cylinder.
As too the o rings , sorry I used hillbilly language, nothing called a coolant hard line on a Honda, nope them suckers are officially know as Pipe A and Pipe B, Connecting.
Starting to feel better about these piston rings. But the coolant mossing is bothering me. I don’t see any drips or sprays from around the hoses or the rad cap. The head gasket was just replaced. So I’d like to think it’s not going there. Any ideas. Rad was a little low on coolant and res completely empty. Second time filling both in past 3 weeks
Black oil and missing oil 
