Trials of buying a used engine.
01-19-2018
#1
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Trials of buying a used engine.
Plan to make this a work in progress thread as I slowly freshen up a used engine I bought to replace the one I have ruined due to poor oil change intervals.
I bought a donor car to replace the engine in my 2003 LX, it was a fresh and shiny (yes paint was in near new condition) 2002 LX that was listed on insurance auction. I saw it listed as 74k miles with rear end damage..
Won the auction for 650, insurance company had reserve of 900 but they met my counter offer of 750. By time fees and towing were tacked on I spent $1300 to get it on my driveway.
After pulling the engine out two weeks ago it mostly has just been sitting in my garage while parts I have ordered are in route. I received the new valve seals yesterday so today I decided to tear down the new engine a bit.
Located the pulley holder I bought like 7 years ago, regretted not loosening the crank bolt while the engine was still in the car. Got out my 2foot breaker bar, impact socket, 1foot breaker bar (old broken craftsman that is locked both ways) , wedged some wood as support and started to apply force and pop bolt came loose with virtually no force..
Now I have speculated in another thread that bolt does not really encounter much more than a minimal force due to keyway so I was not immediately concerned. Then I pulled pulley off very slowly and to my surprise... no key in the groove.....
Once I got the covers off, I could see blue RTV on the waterpump... Only 3 bolts were in the water pump so I can only guess they left bolt out on a waterpump repair, customer drove away, had a leak maybe even overheated came back to same repair shop where they opened it back up, saw bolt was missing and just through ton rtv on it and slapped it back together..
Took valve cover all the way off and very pleased to see no signs of sludge, valve cover gasket has all kinds of debris on it so same mechanics prolly just set it down on shop floor and reinstalled it without even wiping it off. Yes there is oil seepage all along engine.
Now I need to consider this thing might need a new head gasket and head leveling..
For anyone thinking of just tossing in a used engine JDM or otherwise, stuff like this really happens at a lot of repair shops, hopefully I wont find anymore surprises...
I bought a donor car to replace the engine in my 2003 LX, it was a fresh and shiny (yes paint was in near new condition) 2002 LX that was listed on insurance auction. I saw it listed as 74k miles with rear end damage..
Won the auction for 650, insurance company had reserve of 900 but they met my counter offer of 750. By time fees and towing were tacked on I spent $1300 to get it on my driveway.
After pulling the engine out two weeks ago it mostly has just been sitting in my garage while parts I have ordered are in route. I received the new valve seals yesterday so today I decided to tear down the new engine a bit.
Located the pulley holder I bought like 7 years ago, regretted not loosening the crank bolt while the engine was still in the car. Got out my 2foot breaker bar, impact socket, 1foot breaker bar (old broken craftsman that is locked both ways) , wedged some wood as support and started to apply force and pop bolt came loose with virtually no force..
Now I have speculated in another thread that bolt does not really encounter much more than a minimal force due to keyway so I was not immediately concerned. Then I pulled pulley off very slowly and to my surprise... no key in the groove.....
Once I got the covers off, I could see blue RTV on the waterpump... Only 3 bolts were in the water pump so I can only guess they left bolt out on a waterpump repair, customer drove away, had a leak maybe even overheated came back to same repair shop where they opened it back up, saw bolt was missing and just through ton rtv on it and slapped it back together..
Took valve cover all the way off and very pleased to see no signs of sludge, valve cover gasket has all kinds of debris on it so same mechanics prolly just set it down on shop floor and reinstalled it without even wiping it off. Yes there is oil seepage all along engine.
Now I need to consider this thing might need a new head gasket and head leveling..
For anyone thinking of just tossing in a used engine JDM or otherwise, stuff like this really happens at a lot of repair shops, hopefully I wont find anymore surprises...
01-19-2018
#2
"Marge, anyone could miss Canada! All tucked away down there."
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Barrie, ON Canada
Posts: 8,991
Received 1,122 Likes
on
937 Posts
Rep Power: 190 
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
With how bad these cars are for head gaskets it's probably just best practice to check the head and throw on a head gasket just to be safe.
Fingers crossed for no more surprises
01-19-2018
#3
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Tow driver drove it off bed, I only pulled it up on driveway and was happy no oil smoke was coming out of it.
guy who bought the transmission drove it around for a few minutes, then we put it up on jack stands and he took it up to over 100 to listen for noises. He was very happy with how it shifted and sounded.
Plan was to use the tensioner, waterpump and timing belt from my old car cause I changed those out just two years ago.
Goal was to do the swap in a weekend so taking time to get this engine ready to go in. Might just buy a new waterpump and try to rig up compressed air leak down and some coolant hoses on the block and see if bubbles come out. Now is definately the time to pull the head if it needs it.
guy who bought the transmission drove it around for a few minutes, then we put it up on jack stands and he took it up to over 100 to listen for noises. He was very happy with how it shifted and sounded.
Plan was to use the tensioner, waterpump and timing belt from my old car cause I changed those out just two years ago.
Goal was to do the swap in a weekend so taking time to get this engine ready to go in. Might just buy a new waterpump and try to rig up compressed air leak down and some coolant hoses on the block and see if bubbles come out. Now is definately the time to pull the head if it needs it.
01-19-2018
#4
"Marge, anyone could miss Canada! All tucked away down there."
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Barrie, ON Canada
Posts: 8,991
Received 1,122 Likes
on
937 Posts
Rep Power: 190 Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
I'm sure you can rig something up to test the engine out of the car with shop air
01-19-2018
#5
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Pulled the rear main seal off, but noticed seepage on the bottom edge that goes up on the cover..
Is that cover normal to have minor leaks?
Don’t see a gasket as a replacement part so might just only be rtv’d in place?
Is that cover normal to have minor leaks?
Don’t see a gasket as a replacement part so might just only be rtv’d in place?
01-19-2018
#6
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,779
Received 1,440 Likes
on
1,196 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
not sure, but i suspect mine is leaking...
good luck in there, buddy!
nice job so far
good luck in there, buddy!
nice job so far
01-19-2018
#7
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Blue and orange RTV screams "amateur", there are plenty of them even in shops
Lost key, pulley bolt not tight, etc.....plus the botched pump.....
Someone probably paid good money to have a hack mechanic do this to their engine.
I'd try a left hand drill bit on the broken bolt, maybe it snapped when someone overtightened it and it will back right out when a left hand drill takes a counterclockwise bite. If not, now is the time to fix the hole the right way.
As often as these engines blow the head gasket, it might behoove you to slap one in before you drop the engine in. You can have the head measured once it's off.
The dirt stain near the rear main....not a leak but just seep? It took 16 years to collect that much seepage and dirt?? Not sure if I would worry or not. What's the source, the rear seal, seal holder, or the pan? Flip the engine over and do it all now LOL
Lost key, pulley bolt not tight, etc.....plus the botched pump.....
Someone probably paid good money to have a hack mechanic do this to their engine.
I'd try a left hand drill bit on the broken bolt, maybe it snapped when someone overtightened it and it will back right out when a left hand drill takes a counterclockwise bite. If not, now is the time to fix the hole the right way.
As often as these engines blow the head gasket, it might behoove you to slap one in before you drop the engine in. You can have the head measured once it's off.
The dirt stain near the rear main....not a leak but just seep? It took 16 years to collect that much seepage and dirt?? Not sure if I would worry or not. What's the source, the rear seal, seal holder, or the pan? Flip the engine over and do it all now LOL
01-19-2018
#8
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Pulled the camshaft out, valley was loaded with oil that seemed like it was on its way to becoming sludge but it was still liquid just a bit like syrup. Never realized just how bad that design in, oil stagnates in those compartments it seems.
Oil orfice was clear, camshaft seats have “polished” areas but no visible damage. No gouges on any of the lobes.
Pulled spark plugs and they look good and uniform in color.
Hate using broken screw extractor in a aluminum hole.. got lucky with drop of instant glue on tip screwdriver placed on broken bolt in the hole and puffed in some baking soda. Unscrewed right out.
Oil orfice was clear, camshaft seats have “polished” areas but no visible damage. No gouges on any of the lobes.
Pulled spark plugs and they look good and uniform in color.
Hate using broken screw extractor in a aluminum hole.. got lucky with drop of instant glue on tip screwdriver placed on broken bolt in the hole and puffed in some baking soda. Unscrewed right out.
01-20-2018
#9
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
valley was loaded with oil
oil stagnates in those compartments it seems.
01-23-2018
#10
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
All my Honda parts finally came in today. My son was like ,”Dad why did you order a new dip stick”. Figured it was easier than trying to research the correct size o rings to keep the old ones from leaking..
Tinkered around with $10 HF valve compressor tool to replace the valve seals. After modifying it like. 3 times decided it was not the right tool for this engine and ordered the Liistle set..
I have the engine standing vertically To take off the oil pan and the end looks really clean, very happy about that.
Decided to toss in ISB replacement while I have all this apart..only like $50 for the bearing ,seal, and two axle seals..
Based on ytube videos that should only add like 15 minutes extra work...
Tinkered around with $10 HF valve compressor tool to replace the valve seals. After modifying it like. 3 times decided it was not the right tool for this engine and ordered the Liistle set..
I have the engine standing vertically To take off the oil pan and the end looks really clean, very happy about that.
Decided to toss in ISB replacement while I have all this apart..only like $50 for the bearing ,seal, and two axle seals..
Based on ytube videos that should only add like 15 minutes extra work...
01-24-2018
#12
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,779
Received 1,440 Likes
on
1,196 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
i should have mentioned this earlier, but the oil rings gets stuck also.
does that listle works better than the c-clamps?
does that listle works better than the c-clamps?
01-25-2018
#14
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
I ordered new head gasket and various intake exhaust fuel injector oring replacements and took the head off today.
shoulda ordered that short fat coolant hose.. hindsight..
head gasket looked perfct, didn’t even flake apart when I took it off except a little in one corner.
oil seepage in #4 I suspect is only is because of my unusual upright position, good little pool oil made its way past piston.
looking up at the bottom of the piston I can see burtn oil traces in the piston weep holes.. was not planning on taking pistons out but at this point it’s literally two nuts each to remove them and inspect / clean the oil rings..
By no means trying to be cheap at this point, but i do not plan to just replace the rings, just clean and inspect is the direction I am thinking as they only have 74k on them and oem set is almost $200
shoulda ordered that short fat coolant hose.. hindsight..
head gasket looked perfct, didn’t even flake apart when I took it off except a little in one corner.
oil seepage in #4 I suspect is only is because of my unusual upright position, good little pool oil made its way past piston.
looking up at the bottom of the piston I can see burtn oil traces in the piston weep holes.. was not planning on taking pistons out but at this point it’s literally two nuts each to remove them and inspect / clean the oil rings..
By no means trying to be cheap at this point, but i do not plan to just replace the rings, just clean and inspect is the direction I am thinking as they only have 74k on them and oem set is almost $200
Head is flat measured like 20 different ways and could not see sunlight under the large framing square I used.
01-25-2018
#15
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
oil seepage in #4 I suspect is only is because of my unusual upright position, good little pool oil made its way past piston.
just clean and inspect is the direction I am thinking
When I did my Fit engine I had the pistons soaking for like 3 days before the oil rings were free enough to rotate around their grooves. I had already planned to replace the rings, and only soaking in solvent didn't get the ring grooves clean.
head gasket looked perfct, didn’t even flake apart
.....the large framing square
.....the large framing square
01-26-2018
#16
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Surprise, took out the thermostat and found a string about two inches long of blue rtv stuck in the valve...
Cleaned, cleaned and cleaned some more on the cylinder head. Definately glad I bought the listed valve keeper tool. The smaller version fits way better for the exhaust valves.
Middle size of the harbor freight hook loop pliers made pulling the valve seals off pretty easy.
#1 and #4 intake valves had sizable deposits on them.
Cleaned, cleaned and cleaned some more on the cylinder head. Definately glad I bought the listed valve keeper tool. The smaller version fits way better for the exhaust valves.
Middle size of the harbor freight hook loop pliers made pulling the valve seals off pretty easy.
#1 and #4 intake valves had sizable deposits on them.
01-29-2018
#17
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Decided to pull a piston to see how the rings look since the weep holes looked ominous.
Surpise surpirse, Oil control rings totally carboned up into a stuck mass.
Honey, what’s for dinner? Why I just happen to be making Slow Cooked Piston soup..
Took off the bearing and compression rings off and tossed the whole assembly into the family crockpot with water and few ounces of simple green. No magic of TV here, next update will be in 24 hrs.
Surpise surpirse, Oil control rings totally carboned up into a stuck mass.
Honey, what’s for dinner? Why I just happen to be making Slow Cooked Piston soup..
Took off the bearing and compression rings off and tossed the whole assembly into the family crockpot with water and few ounces of simple green. No magic of TV here, next update will be in 24 hrs.
01-29-2018
#18
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Tomorrow: Step it up to a pressure cooker?
Try come carb and throttle cleaner?
Gunk or Berrymans chem-dip bucket, I've wondered how well those would work on ring groove buildup
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...r/0996/2579451
Try come carb and throttle cleaner?
Gunk or Berrymans chem-dip bucket, I've wondered how well those would work on ring groove buildup
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c...r/0996/2579451
01-29-2018
#19
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,779
Received 1,440 Likes
on
1,196 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
ouch
01-29-2018
#20
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
I did my Fit pistons by scraping carbon manually, and following up using a drill bit to clean out the holes through the oil ring grooves
Usually snap a cast ring in half and use the squared ends as the scrapers.
We do have a groove cleaning tool for some J engine pistons but it didn't fit my Fit..Haven't had opportunity to try it on a D17 piston since we got it.
Usually snap a cast ring in half and use the squared ends as the scrapers.
We do have a groove cleaning tool for some J engine pistons but it didn't fit my Fit..Haven't had opportunity to try it on a D17 piston since we got it.
01-30-2018
#21
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
DO NOT COOK Aluminum in a mixture of Simple Green.
Seems I over cooked the piston etching away the polish. Kinda on the fence whether this is just a cosmetic issue as the crown will build up with carbon as normal and after that it just normal for the top.
Cleaned the second piston with elbow grease and WD40 / Grey scotchbrite and Dawnand brake cleaner. Zig zag oil ring spacer was not fun to clean..
When to autozone to get more brake cleaner and saw they had gallon pail of gunk carb cleaner on clearance for $10.
Side by side shots of my etched piston and normally cleaned one.
Judging by how perfectly two pistons fit in there and still able to get the lid back on, Honda mighta envisioned that as a cleaning method.
Seems I over cooked the piston etching away the polish. Kinda on the fence whether this is just a cosmetic issue as the crown will build up with carbon as normal and after that it just normal for the top.
Cleaned the second piston with elbow grease and WD40 / Grey scotchbrite and Dawnand brake cleaner. Zig zag oil ring spacer was not fun to clean..
When to autozone to get more brake cleaner and saw they had gallon pail of gunk carb cleaner on clearance for $10.
Side by side shots of my etched piston and normally cleaned one.
Judging by how perfectly two pistons fit in there and still able to get the lid back on, Honda mighta envisioned that as a cleaning method.
01-30-2018
#22
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Etch? Polish?
Kinda just looks really clean and shiny to me. Not a problem?
Did those piston skirts have a black coating (teflon or some such) on them before cleaning?
Carbon will eventually build up on the piston top, that's normal for any gas engine
Don't forget to reset all of the ring gaps to their desired positions before installing, as per a service manual
Kinda just looks really clean and shiny to me. Not a problem?
Did those piston skirts have a black coating (teflon or some such) on them before cleaning?
Carbon will eventually build up on the piston top, that's normal for any gas engine
Don't forget to reset all of the ring gaps to their desired positions before installing, as per a service manual
01-31-2018
#23
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Scrubbed the mating surfaces with grey scotchbrite and WD-40, liberal dose of Gunk citrus engine cleaner and my worn out pressure washer and this thing looks almost new.
Carb cleaner soak worked really well for the pistons, still had to scrape the grooves a bit but 5 minutes worth not a hour.
Time to start putting things back together.
Carb cleaner soak worked really well for the pistons, still had to scrape the grooves a bit but 5 minutes worth not a hour.
Time to start putting things back together.
02-08-2018
#25
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Bought the el cheapo harbor freight 750lb engine stand for $39 after coupon.
hacksawed the built in spacers basically in half so I could use some bolts I already had. Used some those crazy fat washers on the ends so it would not dig into my block and now I have the engine all mounted properly.
Didnt want to try to put the head back on sideways and didn’t want to worry about it flopping over.
Seems I over estimated what a Honda Civic Shell with salvage title and rear end damage is worth. Started at $100 on Craigslist with daily reposts, then went to $50.. thing but I will send you a check scammers so I gave up trying to sell it and hauled it to the scrap center.
Seems one bare Civic Shell, windshield and 4 tires is 960 pounds...
Poured some oil on top of the pistons, two days later and oil is still there so rings must be sealing at least decently..
hacksawed the built in spacers basically in half so I could use some bolts I already had. Used some those crazy fat washers on the ends so it would not dig into my block and now I have the engine all mounted properly.
Didnt want to try to put the head back on sideways and didn’t want to worry about it flopping over.
Seems I over estimated what a Honda Civic Shell with salvage title and rear end damage is worth. Started at $100 on Craigslist with daily reposts, then went to $50.. thing but I will send you a check scammers so I gave up trying to sell it and hauled it to the scrap center.
Seems one bare Civic Shell, windshield and 4 tires is 960 pounds...
Poured some oil on top of the pistons, two days later and oil is still there so rings must be sealing at least decently..
02-08-2018
#27
Registered!!
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Maryland USA
Age: 41
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
This is great stuff! Def enjoy reading this- I too was on a search for a rear-ended civic when a relative blew up their 04 EX's engine. Wound up fining a low mileage one out of a bone yard, hit on the passenger doors- probably paid more for the engine/trans then they did for the whole car lol. Anyway- says you Scotchbrited the machined surface? Hope this doesn't have any long term effects- I recently rebuilt my LS1 out of my other car, started with the scotchbrite on block deck then was told that was really bad as the particles get down into the engine. Wound up removing and completely remachining and rebuilding it.
02-08-2018
#28
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
You sound like me, hard to not over react when we know something might not be right..
Totally agree you don’t want residue floating around your engine, my situation was different as I had the whole engine opened up and I pressure washed it inside and outside after.
Totally agree you don’t want residue floating around your engine, my situation was different as I had the whole engine opened up and I pressure washed it inside and outside after.
02-08-2018
#29
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Scotchbrite is bad, especially the Roloc discs that mechanics use on a die grinder to remove gaskets quickly.
It can remove metal that shouldn't be removed, and it can leave abrasive grit behind which can end up in the oil and wreak havoc on bearings.
It can remove metal that shouldn't be removed, and it can leave abrasive grit behind which can end up in the oil and wreak havoc on bearings.
02-09-2018
#30
Registered!!
Thread Starter
Re: Trials of buying a used engine.
Reassembled the valve train and installed the head.
Left the crankshaft clocked at 90 so all the pistons are half way up/down. Spun the timing sprocket with my torque wrench.
25foot pounds seems to be force needed to spin it. Surprised how clunky it is, once it get past a set lobes it will snap to a netrual tension position.
Glad I changed the o rings in the coolant hard lines, they were pretty cooked and stayed flat on the outside. Those pipes got jostled quite a bit during my tear down.
Only thing I have left to do is adjust the valves, after that next will be to swap the engines...
Left the crankshaft clocked at 90 so all the pistons are half way up/down. Spun the timing sprocket with my torque wrench.
25foot pounds seems to be force needed to spin it. Surprised how clunky it is, once it get past a set lobes it will snap to a netrual tension position.
Glad I changed the o rings in the coolant hard lines, they were pretty cooked and stayed flat on the outside. Those pipes got jostled quite a bit during my tear down.
Only thing I have left to do is adjust the valves, after that next will be to swap the engines...
