17" Rims - Poor Stock Suspension Performance
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17" Rims - Poor Stock Suspension Performance
I have just installed new bridgestone potenza tires and 17" rims on my '01 Civic Ex. The overall weight of the wheel with the tire is about 8 lbs heavier than stock. I realize the the goal of rims is to reduce the unsprung weight, but I feel that handling over larger bumps in the road is currently better.
HOWEVER, handling characteristics over small "ripples" in the road surface is extremely poor. The steering wheel shakes while going down the the highway (more so on cement then asphalt). And in other circumstanes, the car skips and and feels like it is sliding sideways over the road on slight turns at highway speeds. Basically, I'm asking How can I improve ride quality over normal ripples that occur in most major roadways. Would coilovers solve my problem? or are they typically stiffer. I would rather not lower the car. If coilovers were recommended, I would most likely keep the adjustment at 0". (I might lower it a little bit, but no more than 1")
Is this a characteristic of Macpherson strut type suspension versus Wishbone. I did noticed similar, but much less drastic "skipping" circumstances with the stock 15" rims and tires where bumps existed on turns. Any insight on the above circumstance would be awesome. I would really like to get my car to handle better and not live with poor handling just because the rims look cool.
A work in progress, also considering larger rotors and brakes. The rust on the stock rotors is killing the look.
HOWEVER, handling characteristics over small "ripples" in the road surface is extremely poor. The steering wheel shakes while going down the the highway (more so on cement then asphalt). And in other circumstanes, the car skips and and feels like it is sliding sideways over the road on slight turns at highway speeds. Basically, I'm asking How can I improve ride quality over normal ripples that occur in most major roadways. Would coilovers solve my problem? or are they typically stiffer. I would rather not lower the car. If coilovers were recommended, I would most likely keep the adjustment at 0". (I might lower it a little bit, but no more than 1")
Is this a characteristic of Macpherson strut type suspension versus Wishbone. I did noticed similar, but much less drastic "skipping" circumstances with the stock 15" rims and tires where bumps existed on turns. Any insight on the above circumstance would be awesome. I would really like to get my car to handle better and not live with poor handling just because the rims look cool.
A work in progress, also considering larger rotors and brakes. The rust on the stock rotors is killing the look.
The Standard One
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Rep Power: 416 coilovers wont help but konis might... thats a might tho... thats what happens when you have a smaller side wall with more traction. your tires are going to hug the road more and its going to find any small crack in the road for the car to start turning on its own. but ya your probably going to have to live with it. btw what size tires do you have?
The Standard One
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Rep Power: 416 ..those are some pretty thick tires, maybe go with 16s or 15s and even thicker tires? either that or put up with it i guess... sorry theres always a badd thing when doing a mod.
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Rep Power: 0 215/45/17 is what is recommended by tirerack.com and others in this forum. 205/40's are too thin and have a smaller circumference, so mileage is a big factor. Upgrading the suspension has got to help a little bit. It's not the grooves in the road ( parallel to direction of car) that bother me, but the vibration of the steering system when ripples in the the road (perpendicular to the car) surface exist. And here in Long Island, NY (The infamous Long Island Expressway and all of its tributaries aren't exactly the smoothest roads in the world)
The Standard One
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Rep Power: 416 when i lowered my car all i had was a bad ride through the badd roads but then i got my wheels, my steering wheel was effected. changing the suspension might help a lil but i still think its mainly the tires.
also only thing you changed is the wheels and not your suspension right? your suspension didn't change but your tires did. coilovers will only make it worse cause of the stiffer ride. cause think about it at the extremes, when you hit a bump, your shocks compress so that you dont feel it as much right? you put a stiffer suspension such as a solid metal peice, your going to feel it a whole lot more compared to having a soft suspension such as cotton? i know these arent the best examples but you get the idea.
as i have said i still think its the tires. maybe you should go with 205-50-16 tires or maybe even some 15s. but ya maybe someone else would have some other ideas about whats causing it tho.
also only thing you changed is the wheels and not your suspension right? your suspension didn't change but your tires did. coilovers will only make it worse cause of the stiffer ride. cause think about it at the extremes, when you hit a bump, your shocks compress so that you dont feel it as much right? you put a stiffer suspension such as a solid metal peice, your going to feel it a whole lot more compared to having a soft suspension such as cotton? i know these arent the best examples but you get the idea.
as i have said i still think its the tires. maybe you should go with 205-50-16 tires or maybe even some 15s. but ya maybe someone else would have some other ideas about whats causing it tho.
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Rep Power: 0 The reason your tires are letting go of the road because it's summer (performance) tires with stock suspension and height.
If you think about it, the grooves and tread on the tires are parallel (of sorts) and is meant to give you great grip on a straight road, and the rubber itself gives you grip for handling.
Since your suspension is so soft, the entire body roll is pulling your center of gravity outwards on the turn and your tires can't grip on sideways as well as the stock tires, which has more of a wedge shape tread. Your new tires aren't getting much friction with the ground because your car is heading *that* way.
I think your only option is to lower the car, probably just with a pro-kit if you're looking for 1" max. That will eliminate some height and the stiffer springs will take out a lot of body roll. Koni's and sport springs (or lower) might be the only combo you can go to improve the handling to better-than-stock, as your car will be so close to the ground and so little body roll that the tires will be flat on the ground and getting maximum contact. I have koni's on Sportline on stock tires and I've noticed easily 5x better handling.
You can also try strut bars and anti-sway bars. I don't have them and don't plan on doing sway bars as my rear handling is stiff enough as is, I might do strut bars to help my body. I've read posts about strut bars and anti-sway bars helping to keep the body closer to the ground on turns...
Just my $.02
PS: Get slotted big rotors, they will compliment your rims big time!
If you think about it, the grooves and tread on the tires are parallel (of sorts) and is meant to give you great grip on a straight road, and the rubber itself gives you grip for handling.
Since your suspension is so soft, the entire body roll is pulling your center of gravity outwards on the turn and your tires can't grip on sideways as well as the stock tires, which has more of a wedge shape tread. Your new tires aren't getting much friction with the ground because your car is heading *that* way.
I think your only option is to lower the car, probably just with a pro-kit if you're looking for 1" max. That will eliminate some height and the stiffer springs will take out a lot of body roll. Koni's and sport springs (or lower) might be the only combo you can go to improve the handling to better-than-stock, as your car will be so close to the ground and so little body roll that the tires will be flat on the ground and getting maximum contact. I have koni's on Sportline on stock tires and I've noticed easily 5x better handling.
You can also try strut bars and anti-sway bars. I don't have them and don't plan on doing sway bars as my rear handling is stiff enough as is, I might do strut bars to help my body. I've read posts about strut bars and anti-sway bars helping to keep the body closer to the ground on turns...
Just my $.02
PS: Get slotted big rotors, they will compliment your rims big time!
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Rep Power: 0 The brake rotors will happen after the suspension upgrade, most likely AEM 4-piston with big rotors.
Would a "complete" coil-over system do the job such as B+G or Tein where the dampening is adjustable. I hate to say it, but you guys are confusing the s!@#$ out of me. 1 says to basically go back to stock setup and forget the rims, another says that lowering the car would help and I'm having trouble understanding that.
Thanks for the opinions, I honestly do appreciate it.
My first step will be the RSX sway bar upgrade from Hondawerx.com, then I'll go from there. I already have the DC Sports upper front tiebar and rear lower tiebar.
Would a "complete" coil-over system do the job such as B+G or Tein where the dampening is adjustable. I hate to say it, but you guys are confusing the s!@#$ out of me. 1 says to basically go back to stock setup and forget the rims, another says that lowering the car would help and I'm having trouble understanding that.
Thanks for the opinions, I honestly do appreciate it.
My first step will be the RSX sway bar upgrade from Hondawerx.com, then I'll go from there. I already have the DC Sports upper front tiebar and rear lower tiebar.
The Standard One
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Rep Power: 416 i think msoft is refering to cornering, did you even ask that? if you did, yes lowering your car will help keep the car on the ground when you hit corners
as for the steering wheel shaking on badd road. i'm basically saying its the con of having lower profile tires. you decide if its worth it or not. for me its not that bad, i just make sure i have my hand on the wheel at all times. its worth it. if its worth it for you keep the wheels, if its not, go back to stock. but ya i maybe wrong so get other peoples opinion. i really doubt changing your suspension is going to help much tho. your problems was caused by changing your wheels so thats how your going to solve it. is it really that bad tho? when you mod your car, you cant expect it to run like stock. its like slamming your car and complaining that you scrape everywhere. sorry i sound like an a$$ and i'll probably sound like an even bigger one if i'm wrong but ya you just cant expect your car to run like stock.
as for the steering wheel shaking on badd road. i'm basically saying its the con of having lower profile tires. you decide if its worth it or not. for me its not that bad, i just make sure i have my hand on the wheel at all times. its worth it. if its worth it for you keep the wheels, if its not, go back to stock. but ya i maybe wrong so get other peoples opinion. i really doubt changing your suspension is going to help much tho. your problems was caused by changing your wheels so thats how your going to solve it. is it really that bad tho? when you mod your car, you cant expect it to run like stock. its like slamming your car and complaining that you scrape everywhere. sorry i sound like an a$$ and i'll probably sound like an even bigger one if i'm wrong but ya you just cant expect your car to run like stock.
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Rep Power: 0 Yah, I was referring to your latter point about the car not sticking on turns. As for the bumpy part, Koni's at the softest setting *may* do it for you, but chances are you're going to have to live with it.
As part of having low pro tires, there are two reasons you're feeling your wheel shake. 1. Your tires are flat and big, so every little dent in the road will be felt, and this is also because, as I said, the grooves/treads are parallel and not wedged anymore (i.e. ====== instead of :::::::::[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] where on the stock tires the little bumps will be absorbed by the smaller tread design, where on the low pro tires it's all going up ur [IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG] and the rest of the body. 2. The sidewalls of the tires are much smaller ==> less tire-level shock absorbing.
VNilMAN's point is that the stock design is for comfort. 90% of us on here hated Honda for that, because they've taken a compact sports car and made it into a small-size family coupe (thus, the crappy soft suspension and fuel-saving engine, etc)... Anything you do to the suspension setup (rims, springs, shocks) will cause the ride to be stiffer and thus make you "feel" the road. My point previously was that lowering your body will help lower the center of gravity of your car, and the tires will *seem* like they stick more on uneven pavements, which is partially due to the stiffer springs, so the wheels have less room to travel away from the ground on little bumps, whereas on stock they do have as much space to move as the soft stock springs would allow them.
You might want to go to 16" rims if this continues to bother you, coz in the first place, larger rims w/low pro tires are really for track use (i.e., flat and smooth). I don't know much about tires, but you may also want to invest in low-pro street tires if the potenza is more of a performance/race type (different tread design will help your ride).
I know it's confusing, I was looking at this from a physics/math point of view (I happen to be a CS/Math major, haha)... I'm not sure about how well full-coilovers ride, but I assume they're built on sleeved coilovers and I've heard ppl with sleeved coilovers and Koni's complaining that the ride/handling is not as well as springs and Koni's. That's why I recommended the Pro-kit/Koni setup for you.
But after all, VNilMAN's got it right, you just have to live with your mods. Coz none of them will make your ride closer to softer.
As part of having low pro tires, there are two reasons you're feeling your wheel shake. 1. Your tires are flat and big, so every little dent in the road will be felt, and this is also because, as I said, the grooves/treads are parallel and not wedged anymore (i.e. ====== instead of :::::::::[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] where on the stock tires the little bumps will be absorbed by the smaller tread design, where on the low pro tires it's all going up ur [IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG] and the rest of the body. 2. The sidewalls of the tires are much smaller ==> less tire-level shock absorbing.
VNilMAN's point is that the stock design is for comfort. 90% of us on here hated Honda for that, because they've taken a compact sports car and made it into a small-size family coupe (thus, the crappy soft suspension and fuel-saving engine, etc)... Anything you do to the suspension setup (rims, springs, shocks) will cause the ride to be stiffer and thus make you "feel" the road. My point previously was that lowering your body will help lower the center of gravity of your car, and the tires will *seem* like they stick more on uneven pavements, which is partially due to the stiffer springs, so the wheels have less room to travel away from the ground on little bumps, whereas on stock they do have as much space to move as the soft stock springs would allow them.
You might want to go to 16" rims if this continues to bother you, coz in the first place, larger rims w/low pro tires are really for track use (i.e., flat and smooth). I don't know much about tires, but you may also want to invest in low-pro street tires if the potenza is more of a performance/race type (different tread design will help your ride).
I know it's confusing, I was looking at this from a physics/math point of view (I happen to be a CS/Math major, haha)... I'm not sure about how well full-coilovers ride, but I assume they're built on sleeved coilovers and I've heard ppl with sleeved coilovers and Koni's complaining that the ride/handling is not as well as springs and Koni's. That's why I recommended the Pro-kit/Koni setup for you.
But after all, VNilMAN's got it right, you just have to live with your mods. Coz none of them will make your ride closer to softer.
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Rep Power: 0 The tires will definately make your car handle better, and the more tire the better. Unfortunately, when you go with bigger rims, you get less tire. And as far as the rims go, the heaver it is the slower your car will go [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG].
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: y2k2ciVic
Yeah tell me about it, i put 22 lb chrome tires on each side.. eww talk about slow, she walks
[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: y2k2ciVic
Yeah tell me about it, i put 22 lb chrome tires on each side.. eww talk about slow, she walks
[hr]
Chrome Tires??? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG] Where can I get those? [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]
Anyways, to answer your question...get an alignment.
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From: Singapore, Other, ZEBRA
Rep Power: 0 The unsprung weight has to be about same as stock or lower, else you will not get the performance.. I am using OZ 17" Super Leggera rims with 205/45/17 tires. I will try 215/40 for the next round.
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