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I've been reading through the forums as much as possible and I'm new to any kind of modifcations to cars in general. I have a brand new 2004 Automatic Civic EX Coupe (actually my wife's car but...I drive it some) Anyway I want the car to handle much like the BMW does through corners. From what I've read it sounds like I need.....

Tokico HP's
New Tires
New Wheels
RSX-S rear sway bar and tie bar? Front and back

My questions are:

1. In what order should I purchase these?
2. What size bars do I need in the front and back? Are they both RSX?
3. I've read alot about tires but I'm unsure if I'm better off with a winter set and a summer set or just all year round tires?
5. What size tires would you recommend without lowering the springs?
6. Should I keep my stock springs for now?
7. Do I need an alignment afterwards?

Thanks,

 
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personally i would go for a good set of coilovers and sway bars, and tires

 
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It will NEVER blow through corners like a BMW. The car simply does not have the balance, weight distribution or RWD setup to do it.
The most you can hope for is whatever a set of Koni Shocks and a set of springs will do, plus more rear sway bar, a re-alignment and stickier tires can do.
Start making the car stiffer, you lose the ride quality. Its a tradeoff.

 
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handle like a bmw... Hmm.. Can be done.. and you dont need to brake the bank to do it (i.e. you absolutly DO NOT need a "Coilover")

Heres my recomendation. (and Buy in this order)
1. Wheels/Tires. a good tire will do more for handling then any other single part.
Recomended sizes... For best performance a nice light 15X7, or if you want, find a wide 16". for tires.... well how long do you want them to last, and does ride quality matter? any way, you'll probably get a decent summer tire, and if so, your probably better off with the 16" wheel (less tire roll over)

2. Dampers. Tokico Hp's will do fine, but if you want evey last bit of handling performance you need to get an adjustible damper. (Adjustible dampers include, Koni, Tokico D-Spec, and KYB AGX)

3. Rear ANti-roll bar. dont bother about the front one just yet. The RSX's 19mm rear bar is a good place to start. alternatly the 05+ RSX has a 21mm bar that will fit too. This will minimize understeer, and possibly create some oversteer (probably not). BUT, if the car ends up to be too oversteerie for your likes, then look in to an 01-02 OEM 25.4mm Front anti-roll bar.

You should be just about set from there, if you want to get some tie bars you can.. They wont actually change how the car is handling (oversteer/understeer), but it will make it a bit more responsive and it will feel a lot better.

 
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My goal was to have a BMW-type ride/handling...here's what I recommend:
1st, get the Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar.
2nd, get the lower X-Brace.
3rd get the Tokico HP's.
If money is no object and you want to lower it a bit, the B&G coilovers are nice, they ride similar to a new M3, firmer but less bumpy then stock.
I got the rear strut bar, but it didn't really make a noticable difference.
Lowering springs might make it look cooler, but it won't help the ride.
As for the rear sway bar...it's next on my list.
I did the wheels first with 215/45/17 tires, it's really your choice on what to do first...maybe wait until the tires are worn out before replacing them.
BTW: I have detailed reviews posted on the Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar, X-brace, and the Tokico's.

 
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Ok so I have one person states

1st Wheels/Tires
2nd Tokico HP's
3rd Anti-Roll Bar

Next person says

1st, Neuspeed Front Upper Strut Bar.
2nd, Lower X-Brace.
3rd Tokico HP's.

Couple more questions:

1. One person states the Upper Strut bar is not needed...Is this just a matter of opinions or is there more behind this?
2. Who makes a good Lower X-Brace for the 04' Civics?
3. Ride quality does matter somewhat to me so what tire size is a good balance between ride comfort/traction?

 
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your wife doesn't mind having the car too stiff? if so then cool wife

If you had the money i would go with:
Tein Basic/ Tein SS for adjustable ride comfort
RSX 19mm rear sway should be fine
Most importantly some good sticky tires, if you don't want that bouncy off a ride, don't go for Z rated tires. Just something decent will do
Front struts would help, try to look for a beefy one.

Hope this helps, good luck

 
Rep Power: 380

Well, just for Reference.... This is what I do with my car on weekends...




But any way...

If you want to keep ride comfort, Go with the 16's.. That way you can run a tire with a softer sidewall, and still have decent responsivness.

From experiance... a car will handle better on stock springs running Higher performance dampers then it will on performance springs with OEM dampers.

Other then that, Chassis reinforcements are good, but they dont actualy alter the handling balance of the car... Meaning it will still understeer. but... if you alter the size of the rear anti-roll bar you will change the cars handling balance. Simple way to look at it. Right now the car is tuned to understeer. Honda has done this thorugh a combination of Alignment settings and By Heavily biasing whats called Roll Couple (often called Tire Lateral Load Transfer Distribution or TLLTD) twards the front of the car. Roll couple is the Difference in roll resistance at the front of the car Vs the rear of the car. Simply put, the end of the car (Front or rear) that has the higher amount of roll resistance will lose traction first. So, with honda setting the roll couple Bias heavily forward, they have designed the car to understeer in just about Every situation. To counter this, you can either Decrease the roll resistance on the nose of the car, or Increase the roll resistance at the rear of the car. AND... Anti-roll bars are an excelent way to adjust Roll Couple. So, one of the simplier ways to get the car to handle better is to increase the size or effectiveness of the rear anti-rollbar.

If you want to read up on handling... Check these articles out.
http://www.grmotorsports.com/swaybars.html
http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/
There are a few books I could reccomend if you'd like.

 
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1) 16's w/tires
2) sway bars...RSX, Progress, Neuspeed (only makes rear)
3) KYB AGX, Koni yellows, D-spec
4) bracing upper/lower/front/rear.....if you want, improve responsiveness (I think that's a word)
5) Eibach Pro-kit, small drop, keeps your ride quality and keeps you flatter in the corners.

 
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Thank you all for the help. Few more questions.

1. Are Sway Bars and Anti-Roll bars the same thing?
2. What Size Anti-Roll bar should I try in the rear? Is the front necessary also?

 
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You stated....

But any way...

If you want to keep ride comfort, Go with the 16's.. That way you can run a tire with a softer sidewall, and still have decent responsivness.

So 16 for the wheels would that be 16x7? And what tire size is a softer sidewall with decent responsiveness?

 
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Yes, go for a 16X7. Tire size should be Either 205/55-16 or 215/50-16 (Wider is better, and both of those will have minimal impact on Odometer and Spedometer readings. Just to clear things up... normally I'd say go for a 15X7 and run a tire with a stiff side wall. However, since this is your wifes car and you want some ride comfort, a 16" wheel will allow you to run a tire with a softer side wall (more comfotable) and still reduce some amount of tire rollover (Better turn responce).



1. Yes, they are the same thing.
2. Since this is your Wifes car... I'd start with the RSX's 19mm bar. It will improve handling but not make the car unmanagable. Dont worry about the front one just yet. Remember, the car is tuned to understeer... if you increase the size of the front bar it will end up countering some of the understeer reduction that the larger rear bar will give you. If you do go for a larger rear bar (21mm 05+ RSX bar or one of the many 22mm bars out there) you may want to upsize the front bar. (Right now you have a 15.9mm front bar) If you do decide to do that, an 01-02 OEM 25.4mm front bar would be about as large as I'd reccomend going.

 
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We can take care of you on most of the suspension items you are looking for. Just an FYI. PM me if you have any questions.

 
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What is a fair price for a rear anti-roll bar install?

Also does tire size and wheel size at all change your speed? I'm not talking about odometer but your actual speed?

Thanks,

 
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Dont pay for it, do it your self... it will take a whole 20 min of your time.


For tire sizes that wont mess with Speedo/odometer... Check the Tire calculator at the botom of the page.

 
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Zzyzx you're getting +rep

I totally agree with Zzyzx on everything he stated above

 
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I asked if tire sizes effect your overall speed? Also how much for a anti-roll bar install. I don't have one tool to my name so I will not be doing the install. I'm assuming cheap if you state I could do it my self.

Thanks,

 
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Screw it!!! I did some reading. What tools do I need? Where is this bar I need to replace?

 
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just go out and buy a socket+tool set. it will come in handy further down the road.