Rep Power: 188

okay first off i know some of these questions have been answered, but some have not. Im only wanting to boost like 7-9 psi, really dont wanna spend the money on kpro (yet, ill set up my turbo and stuff and upgrade to kpro later). Hopefully gonna use an emanage.

1. will the emanage be able to handle running just 7-9 psi?

2. is there any downpipes that bolt to a dx/lx exhaust? if not its not too big of a deal but i JUST put my new exhaust on like a week and a half ago.

3. my exhaust is 2", is this fine for such low boost? (until i upgrade to kpro and more boost)

4. with such low boost do i need/should i have an intercooler?

5. parts list-

turbo (internal wastegate) and manifold
emanage with harnesses
bov
pipe for turbo to throttle body/intercooler
intercooler?

is this all i need?

 
Rep Power: 192

Ill answer this before Mindbomber comes and has to tear you a new one ...you cant get a reliable tune on emanage. You need K Pro or AEM EMS to run boost reliably on our cars.

 
Rep Power: 188

yeah i know me and bomber have had this discussion...but a lot of people say if your not tryin to push big numbers the emanage can work just as good. and like i said it would just be temporary untill i can afford kpro.

 
Rep Power: 284

I see my reputation precedes me..

<= University student, I know what modding on a budget is all about.

If you boost the car with emanage it's not going to instantly blow up and leave you with a broken d17 that has a cool turbo kit, it's just not going to hold up as reliably in the long term. Emanage will simply not hold control the engine as well, since it's fighting with the stock ecu for control of the engine. For years, there was no standalone option for d17s and everyone boosted and ran stage 2 cams with piggy backs, they all managed to get by just had way more headaches.

It's tough to get away with boosting for under $2000 though, even with a piggy back, so to me the extra few hundred dollars for k-pro is worth every penny.

 
Rep Power: 188

^^ thats the answer i was looking for lol. after i get it all and boost im saving for kpro...probably used but still lol. as long as the engine will still run and not damage anything while using the emanage im happy with that.

and someone in the marketplace has an emanage with harnesses for $250. so if i can snag that off him and get his hks turbo mani for cheap thats 2 big things outta the way.

also questions about turbos in general...say i found a turbo that is a t25/t28. the t25 is the turbine flange or the compressor flange?

also answers on the other questions i had is appreciated

 
Rep Power: 367

i think one of the troubles was the idle, so be careful

 
Rep Power: 188

does anyone have answers for questions 2-5 in the original post?

 
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oh yea ALSO i will be using a AFC NEO when i do my headswap. Can i still use both when i get emanage? or do i have to engage vtec through the emanage??

 
Rep Power: 284

I'm curious to see if other people answer, if they don't, I will.

 
Rep Power: 237

Yes you need an intercooler. 2" exhaust a little small for any boosted setup, but will be sufficient for modest power goals. E-manage IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. First, you will be wasting money that you are going to put towards k-pro anyway. Second, there are at least 2 other piggy backs in the same price range that will actually work. AEM F/iC and PCS XFC are both viable options, but E-manage is junk, plain and simple. If you are determined to use a piggy back, use one of the other two, but you will be much happier if you buy k-pro first, and turbo second. Trust me, I did a turbo setup with AEM F/iC and then upgraded to k-pro, I wish I had done the standalone first. Your parts list is complete-ish. You need oil lines, coolant lines, couplers, clamps etc. etc.

 
Rep Power: 284

I'd be upgrading the injectors as well, I'm not sure what psi the stock ones would reach 100% duty cycle, but I expect below 5psi. RDX ones work well and are inexpensive, SRT4 are another option, or you could spend a bit more and buy a used set of RCs or something like that

 
Rep Power: 188

i think im just gonna get the godspeed kit and upgrade the turbo some time in the future. and put a restrictor on the oil feed line cuz i guess thats the main problem with those turbos, oil pressure is to high and it blows the seals in there. but it has the intercooler and all pipes clamps oil lines downpipe and turbo elbow. then i will probably get the 3" ex catback off ebay and swap mufflers on it.

as far as the piggyback goes really the F/IC is better than emanage? i figured it wouldnt work since its like half the price of emanage. and ive never even heard of the other one. does the F/IC control vtec too? the shop im gonna tune at knows their emanage, when i called he said he should have no problem tuning with that. but im not sure if their familiar with AEM F/IC or PCS XFC

also stock srt4 injectors fine? how much should a set of those cost? i think someone in the marketplace has rsx injectors from a type s, will those work?

 
Rep Power: 284

k20a2 injectors will just barely be sufficient, they wouldn't be my choice.

RDX injectors, brand new, $199 shipped.
http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=88018

 
Rep Power: 188

fair enough...will RDX injectors be enough to handle after i go kpro and up the boost to...say 15 psi?

 
Rep Power: 284

Yes, they'll handle 15psi.

I checked and RSX injectors are actually supposed to handle 8-12psi before maxing out, I thought they would only handle 10psi. I would still go with the RDX injectors personally, better spray pattern and room to grow once you get k-pro. It's a budget build though, so go with whatever you can comfortably afford.

 
Rep Power: 188

well...its a budget build BUT im tryin not to skimp on important stuff. and find whatever i can used. like the tsi turbo kit in the market place right now

 
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Hey, a budget build isnt gonna work. I just started boosting mine last month and its still not done.

IT was suppose to be a budget build and I had everything i needed besides a tune for 1000+ or -. After I took it to the shop they wouldnt even touch emanage. I bet you wont find one that will that knows what they're doing. plus it will screw things up.

In the end its gonna cost me around 6,000$ but ill know ill have a 100% long term reliable boosted em2 on 8 psi? im using aem ems to tune.

Unless you dont care much about your engine go for the budget build, just dont expect great results. and goodluck finding a emanage blue tuner :O

 
Rep Power: 284

^Sorry to say, but you massively overpaid, you could get a fully tuned brand new turbo set-up for $6k with Tial parts. I have no idea why it would cost $1000 to tune a car, that's a good 6 hours on a dyno. You could have swapped in a k24a2 for that price, made the same power, and actually had a long term reliable stock engine.

You should be able to do a budget boost build for $3k with a tune and decent quality parts.

 
Rep Power: 198

Didn't you also pay the garage to fix up all the little things that were wrong with your turbo setup when they tuned it? Like the leak and such. That must have added a bit to the price as well. 6k is a ton of cash to spend on a turbo on a 5k car.

 
Rep Power: 188

like i said the shop already said they can tune it with emanage. theyve tuned lots of cars with it. and for 6k i could have my engine fully built and have a new tsi turbo kit AND have it tuned with kpro for a little less than 6k lol

anyways what internals should i get to prepare for boost? besides arp studs. and im already putting in a stage 1 cam in my ex head before i do the swap. also anyone know if i can still use the afc neo after its boosted? or does vtec have to be done with the emanage/F/IC/PCS-XFC or whatever i use?

 
Rep Power: 188

actually...forget it im just gonna save up for this one
http://www.procivic.com/pages-produc...505/index.html

if i were to get the godspeed kit i would still need an ems and injectors and turbo timer. and will still spend about $1k more for it. OR i could dish out the cash for the tsi kit that comes with F/IC, 410cc injectors, a gt25 turbo, and downpipe that will fit. for the extra couple hundred dollars i think its worth it.

opinions?

also should i go with the F/IC with that kit or the TSI controller? same price which one is better?

 
Rep Power: 228

here's a few things no one's brought up. i'm not an FI guy, just thought i'd bring up some other issues.

`any thoughts on sleeving the block?
`fuel pump?
`which map sensor?
`oil return lines?

not sure if these two are needed, depends on your setup.
`will you need slimer fans so the turbo mani fits/ are your fans plastic, will they melt.
`will you need to relocate the battery to fit everything in?

if so you'll need a nice zero gaudge V+ wire and ground the car in another place.

 
Rep Power: 188

dont know my engine internals too well...what does sleeving the block do exactly?

figured the fuel pump should be able to keep up...but thats one of those things ill see when i do the install.

most kits come with the oil lines and/or water lines.

the other turbo em2s ive seen the battery is in the same place.

fans ill see when i install/test fit them

anyone have good reviews on those turbo heat shield blankets?

 
Rep Power: 228

sleeving as far as i know is porting out the cylinders to a larger diameter, then dropping in steel sleaves because the stock block might not be able to handle boost for extended periods, but i think this is for those monster 20+ psi builds.

hopefully a boost guy can chime in.

but here's a link http://www.clubcivic.com/board/showthread.php?t=36356

 
Rep Power: 188

ahh...well im NOT going anywhere near 20 psi lol...but if i were to do the bore and sleeves...i should just get a k20 lol after all the machine shop costs sleeves and turbo.

 
Rep Power: 284

You don't need to sleeve the block, that would be necessary if you were running extremely high boost or a high bore. If you want power levels that high on a d17 you're better off doing a budget k24 swap, the costs would be comparable at that point since you wouldn't need to build the k24 block or run as large a turbo to make equivalent power. A stock boosted k24 running 12-15 psi would also be infinitely more reliable than a fully built D17 running 20-25 psi.

The stock fuel pump is good for 250-275whp, no worries there.

Turbo heat shield blankets are a very good idea, I would also go nuts with heat wrap.

Also...
If you're raising your budget to $2500ish, have you considered piecing a kit together?
If you shop around for a used turbo, waste gate, BOV, injectors and everything else you can get a great budget kit, just takes patience. You can also get great deals on good quality parts by using OEM parts from factory turbo cars if you do that.

 
Rep Power: 188

yeah...idk if i can find a good deal on a used hondata ill try to snag it...

but i wonder...the F/IC uses either tps or maf to tune...but if you have a aem uego wideband (ill be ordering mine with the next paycheck since i think it will be usefull after my headswap) the F/IC can use that to tune...making it more accurate therefor more reliable...in theory.

idk either way im going with kpro eventually, as long as i find a good deal.
and the only reason i was thinking about that tsi kit is because it comes with literally everything needed. except the tune. but it really boils down to how much money and extra shifts i can gather at work lol

 
Rep Power: 284

In theory, more accurate, but in practice I think any reliability gains would be pretty marginal since it's still piggy back. I'm not an ems expert though, I know more about suspensions than anything, I just have a solid understanding of engine performance fundamentals.

I'm almost tempted to boost, $2500 kit + $1100 k-pro + $450 tune and you're done. Damn, throw an extra $800 on top of that and you could have stage 2 cams and a y8 mani.. nah, then I'd need to sell off my k-series stock pile.

 
Rep Power: 188

yea...thats another reason i didnt want kpro lol. cuz i know as soon as i get it ill forget all about boostin and order a stage 2 cam and new valve springs and retainers and thats almost half the cost of my turbo set up right there after a tune lol...then again id be a lot faster with a stage 2 turbo cam than a stage 1...especially if im gonna need kpro anyways to boost i might as well get a stage 2 cam while im at it

how familiar are local shops with hondata anyways?

 
Rep Power: 284

Any tuning shop who is good with Hondas should be able to tune hondata blind folded.

The thing that's good about a stage 2 cam and Hondata first is that it adds bottom end power, where a turbo you still need to get it spooling in higher revs before feeling the power. The thing I hate about the d17 is the lack of torque, I'm okay with the top end power, the bottom is just so.. non-existent that you need to break 4k rpms to accelerate hard.