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I dunno if I wrote an intro when I joined up here or not but ill go ahead do a short one quick. I'm new to the tuning game. But looking to jump right in off the deep end.

I need just about everything(literally) to get my 2001 em2 to 250-300 whp boosted. Was thinking about building around a t3/t4 but that might be a little over kill and not get the spool speed I would want ( opinions plz)

But I should be getting a project d17a2 long block and tranny to start building over the winter. But will be looking for any and all internal components anyone may have. Wasn't planning on sleeving.

And also looking for suspension and exhaust kits.

There's a lot of good stuff here so far. Excited to be here. Thnx in advance for any and all feedback!!

 
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A wtb thread really isn't the place to discuss what it takes to achieve 250-300whp, needless to say your looking at well over $5000. That's not even beginning to consider suspension, brakes, cosmetics. I'll move this thread to forced induction and swaps, once you have a better idea what you need for your build then create a wtb thread with a parts list.


Just to start your parts list off:
K-pro
K-pro modified cam gear
JDMfabtech D17 manifold
Upgraded Valve Train - d16 parts are compatible.
Brian Crower Stage 3 n/a cams or stage 2 turbo cams.
Aggressive P&P head
ARP rod bolts
ARP head studs
Upgraded rods, I believe K1 will handle that much boost if not crower.
Lw compression pistons
Any decent turbo manifold, obx should do
Full exhaust 2.5-3 inch diameter, with a high flow cat.
Aggressive P&P head
Arp head studs
ES motor mount inserts

there's your first several thousand in worth of parts.

 
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Yep thats basically all that ive deduced so far. I need to sit down and work a list of the exacts of what i need but that pretty much sums up my progress thus far. Question though... when you say aggresive port and polished head do you mean to say a new head or will my d17a2 head rebuilt handle what im looking to do? Thank you for the info ive been a little in the dark on the solid beginning list.

Like i said Im starting with the engine and tranny. I plan on spending and buying as I go and just want to be able to drop a boost ready engine in the car by spring. and not really worry about the boost till later into the summer. that being said will the car run all the necessary components without the added power/ would it be smart to to buy the kpro/ cam gear while im at it so it can be tuned. sorry if any of this is obvious. Ive gathered a lot from the forums but naturally its a spotty buisness and theres some gaps to fill.

 
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Port and polish entails sending the stock d17 head to a machine shop and having them modify it to increase it's ability to flow, 250-300whp is a lot to pull out of a d17 so I'm fairly certain this will be a necessary step for you. You might be able to get away without it, keep researching and compare your goals to others who have achieved similar numbers. Your very first purchase should be k-pro, it's not just necessary to manage boost but all the internal modifications as well.

Look into k-swaps as well, that would be slightly less expensive and you could achieve a little less power than your goals with just k-pro, I/H/E and cams. The advantage would be that your engine isn't as heavily modified.


ps. I'm changing the title of your thread, if it reflects the subject you'll get more responses, just a tip.

 
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"Port and polish entails sending the stock d17 head to a machine shop and having them modify it to increase it's ability to flow"
I was planning on having that done while I had the block magnafluxed. no idea on the cost of this process though.

"250-300whp is a lot to pull out of a d17 so I'm fairly certain this will be a necessary step for you. You might be able to get away without it" Ive heard of these engines going above and beyond but thats not really what im looking to do or spend. Ive also kinda read 300 is about the cap before you really have to get too far into it replacing everything to handle it.

"keep researching and compare your goals to others who have achieved similar numbers." Ive done what I can but cant really come up with any outcomes on d17a2 builds. Ive read through speedfoos and hectors build on the d forums but both were inconclusive to all the info I was looking for. Havent really found anyone doing this stably with a build thread so everything ive peiced together info wise is kind of theororetical.

"Look into k-swaps as well, that would be slightly less expensive and you could achieve a little less power than your goals with just k-pro, I/H/E and cams. The advantage would be that your engine isn't as heavily modified."
That was the original plan but for multiple reasons it wasnt going to work out. Then I was just gonna sell the civic and take a lone out for a rsx-s but in order to sell the civic for a decent return I would need to fix the oil burn which Im almost positive is a piston ring. annnnnd having it done would cost about as much as what it would go for fixed. so realizing all that i decided im kinda stuck to fixing it myself. so after all that my current thought process is to take my first car and turn it into something i will love and have the pride of basically building from the ground up. while gaining all the knowledge of you folks (with a bit of luck) : D

 
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Supermex's 305whp build, he was on here too before he parted his em2 out.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1772982

Supermex's d17 turbo faq

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...july-07-a.html

Boilermaker looking back from a 237whp turbo build.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/7...000-miles.html

Most of the people making in the 300whp range use the JDM fabtech manifold, you could probably make the d16y8 manifold or an aftermarket manifold for the d16y8 work to meet your goals but it will just make it that much more difficult when it comes time to tune. The JDM fabtech manifold is $1000 btw.

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...fold-swap.html

You'll need to upgrade to a walboro fuel pump once you hit 275whp, the stock fuel system is returnless, you could upgrade that to a return fuel system but with 750cc injectors it should be fine without doing that.

 
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Didn't SuperMex achieve 438 whp on a D17A1?

 
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Yup, but he started out with the lower 305whp build.

The dyno sheet for the 438whp build is in the second link from my previous post.

 
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I was starting to feel like I had a slight grasp on what needs to be done. So in conclusion in regards to the first phase of this build being just the engine, to get this dropped in and running ill need all internals in the block, head built and worked, fuel pump, exhaust and kpro? Just to run the newly built engine I mean.

 
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http://articles.evans-tuning.com/200...doesnt-matter/

Just food for thought. This website is great for other power-related purposes too, though they focus more on B and K series engines.

They even have a "horsepower chart" that will give you a parts list for a given power goal. Perfect for the first time builder/booster.

Hope this helps without sounding too arrogant.

 
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Not at all thank you : D

 
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At least he didn't ask for that much hp out of N/A.That would be a pain.

 
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^^^ lol at that point i'd just sit back and

but seriously.. why 250-300whp? what are you looking to do? just curious at what your goals are for the car (track, autox?)

also with a turbo that large you're gonna have some killer turbo lag. my friend had a t3/t4 in his D series and his mid-range was non-existent (though it could've just been the tune) when boost did kick in all he did was spin tire through 3rd gear..which is why that article is relevant because horsepower doesn't matter if you don't have a proper torque curve to put the power to the ground.

 
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Yeah what are you going to do with that power?And if it's for track,remember you need to tune the hell out of your suspension.FF will naturally experience understeer.Oh and a good set of tires would help.Maybe mess around with the gears.

 
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It'd be my dd overall but just want something fun to drive. And womping on local mustangs and red neck boys around here would almost pay for the whole thing(...almost)

I don't know how to play with the gear ratio yet. Plan to start that research when I get the donor trany. Still deciding weather or not I want to go the extra with lsd or not. Prolly not right away seeing as I thought I'd be able to section out the projects(and costs) into a couple phases.

I think autox would be more fun than straight line but depending on cost of either set up.

And yeah that's what I figured with t3/t4 would be too big and be almost useless. From what I've read t28 might be a better fit but theses still a lot more of research before I'm ready to decide that yet.

[for now I'm trying to figure out what needs to be done to just the engine to meet these goals in the future. I wanted to build an engine that can handle these gains and run that until I'm ready/ can afford to piece together a kit.

 
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You'll be able to run the stock fuel system until you boost, but you've got the general idea. I'd modify the d16y8 im this winter as well, it's not to much work and it's a good starting point. You'll need a tune once it's dropped in as well.

Looking forward to seeing a build thread man

Even on a K20/24 making 300whp n/a is approaching a 10k engine build.

 
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No disrespect to your friend at all, but turbo lag isn't an issue even on larger turbos if you buy a good one that can spool fast.

Lsd is pretty kill, but not a necessary part and it's expensive. I'd get the engine, suspension and brake mods done before spending money on that.

 
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For autocross,the power doesn't matter.It's all in the suspension setup.Trust me.I ran my MR2 in autocross and it didn't matter how much power you have.There's a lot of Evo's,Mini's,and BMW in autocross and I doubt they have had significant engine mods.And there's different classes for your power output.

 
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Power only matters at the drag strip, suspension and brakes are what's most important in autocross. Vtec probably remembers the R8 gt that was part of the super car street race in Vancouver, that car's engine is producing over 600whp and I watched a 1990 mazda 323 keeping pace with him on a very technical track event. Power difference, only about 400whp, but the 323 had a better suspension for the track and a better driver.

If you go turbo that puts you into a way more competitive autox class.

 
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Yeah kinda what I figured in the end... I want quick, top speed is good but getting the most out of the gears torque wise is kinda where my goals are. I think autox would be more fun but maybe not for this build. Honestly just getting to these goals and running stable ill be ecstatic.

 
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I remember that thread Mindbomber.Yeah if you don't have a good suspension you're basically a turtle on the track.Even on a straight,after you come out the corner,cars with better suspension will be able to accelerate sooner and faster than you.First time I was on the autox with stock suspension my time was slow as eff.I had a Greddy TDO6 turbo upgrade with a HSK turbo exhaust and was putting out somewhere in the 300-320hp range.I don't even remember anymore it's been so long.But with my lowered suspension and nothing else,my times sucked.

 
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Found a y8 to mod on will z8 Injectors work? No fuel rail though...

 
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You can use the stock fuel rails and injectors.

 
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He doesn't have either just injectors. Or do you mean my rail will work with it? I will refer to that link you left me now heh.

Question though on the engine and tranny I'm buying to build. The engine has a spun rod bearing, is there any damage that can come from this that won't be simply replaced if I stick to this list like I plan? And regarding the tranny(which I still don't really know much about) he said 3rd grinds slightly. I've been told that rebuilding a man tranny isn't that hard at all is that true?

 
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It's true, rebuilding a manual tranny isn't all that difficult, maybe a little less difficult that rebuilding an engine. An automatic tranny is another story, that's a nightmare.

Don't buy the engine with the spun rod bearing, although sometimes you can get away with just replacing the rod bearings it's possible that significant damage was done to the engine as well. Often times there will be galling on the crank shaft, which means it would need to be removed and sent to a machine shop to be reground. Beyond that, consider the cause of a rod bearing going, which is typically inadequate lubrication. The engine may have a bad oil pump or the owner didn't change the oil routinely, so the block may have other damage. Your best option is to find a engine in decent shape and save on machine shop expenses.

 
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It's for a rediculous steal though. 300 together. I might chance it. I was planning on getting the block checked before starting anyways... Haven't been able to find a motor for less than 400 much less including tranny around here.

 
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Just my 2 cents, the d17 wasn't meant to go fast. It's more of an economical based motor. Like previous posts, your looking at spending 5-10k to obtain 200-230 whp. Your better off going with a k-swap. Even then getting high numbers out of a k20-k24 involves going with a force induction system. So save up if you plan to go through with the build. D17 or k series, good luck

 
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I was planning for 5-7 k on performance when its done. And so far I'm finding decent potential for inexpensive used parts. I'm confident it will be fun and worth it.

 
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Machine shop expenses add up fast, if you need to have the crank re-worked it's probably not worth the expense. Also keep in mind, if the spun bearing is bad enough, the piston could have literally come in contact with the head. If it's an a2 I would still pick it up since it includes the trans, you'll either wind up with a good deal or a few spare parts and some scrap metal.

 
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Truer words never spoken...


Realistically, when you do an engine build you got to take into account for "Murphy's Law", because it WILL bite you in the ***. I promise. Budgeting out a turbo setup for a D17 is a much safer ride than doing a K-swap because it eliminates a lot of these "what-if's" that will come and That being said, when you go to put the turbo kit on you really need to make sure that you have every single one of your bases covered. Buying a motor with a spun rod bearing add's something to the equation that you really don't want to have to worry about. Spend the extra money and do it right the first time...I cannot stress that enough. Chancing anything during an engine build is a terrible idea.