Rep Power: 244

Hey guys .. Im going to want to do a build soon go for 250-300 whp range ... I have the dezod kit on there, k pro, srt - 4 injectors ..

the only thing missing is my internals... my machine shop said i don't need to change my cam and valves and stuff and they make lil difference .. and its good to do it but i don't have to. He said the weakest link are my rods ... so he said u'll be able to put out 240-250 with pistons, rods, and a pnp head. is that enough work to boost 15 lbs? or will i have to change the valves, springs, retainers, and cams. Sleeving the block is out of the question .cuz its too much money and i don't even need it unless im going for big big power. or will i need it for 15 lbs of boost ... i don't have much money .. img oing to do this once and i want to do it right.. i also need to obviously change my intake mani .. i can't afford a J fabtech but will i be able to go with the d16 one for that much power??? how bout fuel setup .. stock rail with srt-4 injectors returnless is what i have now ? **** im a noob

ANDYMAN and other people who have/are building this is where i need ur help the most, i read everything the FAQ on the proper build all that stuff ... i jus wanted to know .. i wanted to be safe and reliable with the least amount of money .. need ur input guys on what i need, will it be worth going for 300 whp/ will i even acheive it without headache? or should i sell my car for 12 grand to a local buyer and put 8 grand into buying an s2k rather then the build ... whats safe, how much power, how much boost with wat kind of a build? this is stuff i don't know .. like for example a stock engine .. 5-8 lbs ~200whp is safe ... now we're talking a built engine how much boost, roughly how much power will i make?

things im missing from my current setup:

An oil pan .. - im running a breather
stage 3 clutch - i have the exeddy stage 1 organic (im not sure if enough for BIG POWER???)
NO BIG BRAKES
a slightly weak INPUT shaft bearing .. (i hear it) wouldn't this be a huge problem?
intake manifold -

is it worth doing it all .. **** so much **** to do so much money .. and i heard all ill be doing is spiinnning out 1st 2nd and sumwat 3rd ... but its a hobby as well as a dream .. its just saying is it worht doing it .. spending another 8 grand into my car ???

I EITHER WANT PEOPLE TO CONVICE ME TO DO IT OR NOT TO DO IT.

 
Rep Power: 244

please answer all my questions all u exxpertsss

 
Rep Power: 388

andyman to the rescue

 
Rep Power: 350

If your goal is 250 whp, you don't need anything but bolt on parts and a kpro. If you don't have that, you NEED it. Your machine guy doesn't know what the **** he's talking about, I would never go back there ever again.

I made 247 whp on 13.5 psi on a completely stock non vtec engine. If you do a d16 intake manifold, you'll need to adjust the intercooler pipe.

As for injectors, I wouldn't go smaller than a 550. You should be able to get away with that and a walbro in tank pump for fuel.

You haven't searched very hard, everything you're asking has been answered by me so many times I can't count that high.

And your car has one cam.

 
Rep Power: 297

I ran 13.6s @ 104-106 in the quarter on stock lower end pretty much with a mild tune and conservative driving. I drove it everywhere when it was set up like that too. I'd personally go with what Andy said plus arp headstuds and rod bolts for cheap insurance. With a good tune stock rods have proven to be at least safe for 250 whp on a tight engine if you take care of it and pay attention to what it tells you.

 
Rep Power: 388

Its all depends on what you want man.

If you wanna civic ppl will look at and be like, oh that car has nothing- and then you smoke them, then go ahead with the build. Its not a shitty car.

If you want to have a cool looking car that is exactly what everyone expects- a pretty fast 2 seater.... then buy the s2k.

Either way your going to see shitty returns on your investment because everything is going to depreciate. S2k's are cool, but like... people expect them to be fast.

How many friends do you have? I know it sounds like a bad question, but a 2 seater wont let ya scoop more then one girl at a time... kiss that 3-some goodbye!

 
Rep Power: 350

That's why chicks have laps too

 
Rep Power: 303

lol at Triz and Andyman! hahah

and good luck emjay!

 
Rep Power: 379

I saw three people getting out of a 360 Modena when I was at some club in Scottsdale last week.... on a Tuesday no less.

 
Rep Power: 244

lol i love u guys .. ok . first off i know we have one cam .. lol. I'm tuned with the F/IC right now and i know if i want to go bigger i know i need the k pro .. all the searches and stuff told me safely is 200 whp .. and thats where iam.. he told me 2200 for rods, pistons, and a pnp head ..

andy is it actually safe to boost 13 lbson a stock block ... i know thats pushing it... is it worth just spending 1300 on a kpro with tune just to get to 250 on a stock block? is that going to be reliable? should i do that? or should i spend the 2200 for the rods pistons andp np ??or just drive it at 190whp with my f/ic tune .. my clutch is the organic it can't even handle over 200 tq . cuz its the exedy stage one organic.

i did it right since the start... for my plans of 200whp goals i put together nice setup thats why i went with that clutch ... i also have the 550 srt 4 injectors and a walbro in the tank. fuel shouldn't be a problem. i have a wideband afr , aem tru boost electronic boost controller , i have arp head studs for cheap insurance ... and i want to do it right if im going big .. i don't want a half *** setup not reliable, clutch slippage, this and that .. with that said, should i leave it as is, enjoy it cuz my setup matches my power levels, or should i spend that 1300 for kpro tune on stock internals or do it right and do it all ??

ps. also don't forget about the trunk .. there's always room there for a 3rd haha

 
Rep Power: 388

4 million questions, I think I caught a few.

Andy had a stock bottom end and was pushing well over 300hp. I think you'll be more then fine at 200 with a stock bottom end. Kpro it man. You can always build the bottom later- you just gotta go back to get tuned again.

If you want to swap the cam, then go with stage 2 or 3 from crower- you'll need the valve springs and retainers- thats ~600. You can swap them yourself- video DIY link in my sig.

If you wanna go big with it- then do pistons and rods and the ARP hardware plus PNP the head. You could even change the valves to aftermarket and run oversized by .5mm or 1mm, and oversize the pistons and run low compression pistons. Wiseco has pistons out, and there was some company that came out with even cheaper rods then the crowers for boost applications- dezod posted about it back a few weeks ago- check his site.

 
Rep Power: 244

hey triz thanks for that .. i know of all the stuff in the market.. its just should i go big.. i feel like my setup needs a lot of changes cuz im so picky to do it the best since the noob days of andy telling me do it right and save urself a headache... a bottom end build is 2200 with kpro and tune is 1300 = 4500 ..thats easily over 5gs.. how come speed foos started getting rod play or piston slap one of the two can't remember which at 250 whp .. is it cuz he was running a piggy back? does kpro make a big difference?

also my boost controller could be usefull ... tune at 250 stock end and 190 daily driver ..

 
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Because at some point in the car's lifetime it was run low on oil, and the turbo exacerbated the problem. Also because my tune isn't rock solid. There's only so much you can do with tuning via email on a piggyback. So those two factors contributed to my main bearing going bye-bye. The water pump going out....well that's just bad luck. Car only has 35K on the dial.

Tuning tuning tuning. That will be the key. If there's no detonation, then you can run that bitch at 300whp on stock internals.

 
Rep Power: 244

dam foos, i never actually knew u could run our bitch at 300 whp .. so u think its a good idea to jus kpro and boost her at 250 ? that way i can have a reliable tune and push more without having to drop big bux changing my setup?? how will i know if detonation hasn't started and my rods will hold ish

 
Rep Power: 0

Yep, Andy's done it.

That's the thing about detonation, you don't know unless you check things out. You'll have to drop the girdle to replace the rod bolts with ARPs so that will let you have a peak at one half of the main bearings to give some indication of their condition. If I had k-pro, I would probably run a daily level of around 250whp on stock internals and call it day. But since this is a fun hobby, I'm upgrading the gut because I want to hit 400 on the dyno just once (with k-pro).

You may want to research detonation a little bit too, so you know exactly what causes it and how to tell it's happening. Most folks will use a "det can" when tuning to make sure there is no detonation occuring. The stock knock sensor can't pick it up.

 
Rep Power: 244

so .. things i must change/need to get .. would be:

Kpro + tune
Catch can?
Stage 3 clutch ? exeddy organic (not powerful enough

 
Rep Power: 244

why the **** do shops say that when it comes to building sohc, u don't need to change the cam because its a SOHC and not a DOHC so therefore it makes very lil difference weather u change it or not and wat matters is the pnp head so it breathes. They also said tha springs/retainers is optional and its up to me to change it.

they say that rods, pistons and pnp head is good for 300 whp reliably.

is this true.... i would save almost 1000 bux not changing the cam and springs/retainers... but at the same time i don't wanna not change it if its a MUST!

i got quoted

K1 rods
wiseco pistons
all gaskets changed (head, valve, exhaust, intake)
Rod bearings changed
pnp head
Labour
-------------------- 2570
kpro
tune
-------------------- 1400

Total ~4000

 
Rep Power: 388

If you go beyond the stage 1 cam from crower you need to upgrade the springs- they are tougher.

A cam will change valve timings that bring air in, and let it escape and other **** like that- yeah its helpful, but its not a must. A turbo isnt a must, nothings a must. Should you change the cam? Its optional of course. If you dont, then you dont, if you do, you'll get more power. What do you want to do?

Keep in mind most ppl dont have any experience building a d17- when they say they specialize in honda motors it means they've worked on the H and B series motors most likely. Finding a shop that has experience with performance D17 work is pretty rare- all of them have already been on this site. You can bet someone thats not in a community specifically for our car isnt going to be boosting and upgrading the internals just for the hell of it. Civicforums really causes ppl to boost.

Another note on the cam- they might get 30 bucks outta you for changing your cam, but to spend 6+ hours on your head for a PNP they are going to get a lot more. Shop workers gotta eat too.

 
Rep Power: 244

ur so right about the community and d17s... the thing i love about it is my friends a4 1.8t with a big turbo is pushing around 280 whp and its so predictable ... a d17 pushing 280 whp is so UNPREDICTABLE .. anyway with that said and done ...

is 300 whp daily driver too much? should i aim higher since im going built or should i settle for 15 psi like i plan ~270-300 whp