P1106 & Misfires revisted
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correct... also you'd only want to start retarding timing high in the rpm range to safeguard against detonation. Start with only a few degrees and see how she drives. You're not making drastic changes only small for now and keep tweaking as your fuel trims adjust. Drive, drive, and drive some more.
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Oh, man. I'm so scared to mess with my ignition. Anywho, I have friday off work so I will definitely devote more of time then. I'm gonna try & shoot for 240-310 inj. correction and see if I can get the check engine off but still run decent....only comes on for too rich on bank 1......my car also use to buck & shake like crazy (probably misfire) on very cold start up before I messed with the injector corr. No more issues after richening her up.
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Rep Power: 303 Re: P1106 & Misfires revisted
make sure to save all your progressive maps so you can always go back to a previous map easily. Have you been using the map trace feature on the e-manage? I found it to be VERY helpful in finding a the spot /rpm that needs adjusted. Just remember to make baby steps. BTW i assume you have a laptop? You may want to consider buying one of THESE Makes it real nice and will give a pretty decent scanner that you can use on other cars dependant on which one you get.
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Rep Power: 238 Re: P1106 & Misfires revisted
ok, so I started with a 270-310 inj. correction.
Idle is good,first intial punch of gas still yields a 10.0-11.00 dip.....WOT was at 11.0-11.3.
Next, I tried 230-310 and got all of the above besides WOT. WOT was around 12.2-12.4
Next, I tried 220-310.....all of the above besides WOT again....WOT was at 11.8-12.0...so I left it at that for tonight. Hopefully that will keep me with no check engine lights....either missing,too rich, or baro/map
tfnaaf, what is the map trace feature. I have never read anything about it?
Idle is good,first intial punch of gas still yields a 10.0-11.00 dip.....WOT was at 11.0-11.3.
Next, I tried 230-310 and got all of the above besides WOT. WOT was around 12.2-12.4
Next, I tried 220-310.....all of the above besides WOT again....WOT was at 11.8-12.0...so I left it at that for tonight. Hopefully that will keep me with no check engine lights....either missing,too rich, or baro/map
tfnaaf, what is the map trace feature. I have never read anything about it?
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Rep Power: 238 Re: P1106 & Misfires revisted
Hah, ya no ****!
So...basically I adjust fuel +/- in emanage until I can reach +5/-5% of 0% of ST & LT fuel trim from 100-7000rpm?
and the way I do that is by subtracting out of the airflow map & adding in the additional injector map in emanage ?
Do I got it right so far.......I have easy access to scan tools at my shop. For sure friday I'll spend all day messing with it! I've already got a map made in replica of your new maps. I'll try that and see how we go!
Originally Posted by tfnaaf
Well, im deffinately a N00B when it comes to e-manage tunning for sure. But if you have the tiem could you possibly explain How to tune by watching the fuel trim?
Well, im deffinately a N00B when it comes to e-manage tunning for sure. But if you have the tiem could you possibly explain How to tune by watching the fuel trim?
no prob
it is actually quite simple.
you need some sort of OBDII scanner that has a data streaming capability.
When you have that, set it up to watch the LT_Ftrm and the ST_Ftrm (long and short term fuel trims). When you have that, you need to have your laptop setup to watch your fuel tables in real time.
When you have those set up, you need to start cruising at low RPM (around 2k) and then start accellerating with a specific amount of throttle. You then watch both the fuel trims on the scanner and the fuel map on the laptop. When you see the fuel trims start to add or subtract fuel, you do the same on the fuel map.
so lets say you are at 3250 RPM and the scanner shows a LT_Ftrm of -2% and a ST_Ftrm of -14%. You should gradually take out fuel in the fuel map until the fuel trims come back down to around zero.
The difference between the LT_Ftrm and the ST_Ftrm is simple. The ST_Ftrm's are what the computer is doing at that specific point in time. The LT_Ftrm is the trend that the computer is seeing.
You know how they say your computer "learns"? Well, they are talking about the LT_Ftrm. Over time, the computer averages out the data it recieves and outputs it as a single variable (LT_Ftrm). When this is at or close to 0%, that means that you spend most the time with a 0% fuel trim correction factor.
When you disconnect the battery, this is the value that gets erased and must be "re-learned" in order for the car to run at its potential.
Typically i like to see fuel trims between +5% and -5% on the LT_Ftrm.
it is actually quite simple.
you need some sort of OBDII scanner that has a data streaming capability.
When you have that, set it up to watch the LT_Ftrm and the ST_Ftrm (long and short term fuel trims). When you have that, you need to have your laptop setup to watch your fuel tables in real time.
When you have those set up, you need to start cruising at low RPM (around 2k) and then start accellerating with a specific amount of throttle. You then watch both the fuel trims on the scanner and the fuel map on the laptop. When you see the fuel trims start to add or subtract fuel, you do the same on the fuel map.
so lets say you are at 3250 RPM and the scanner shows a LT_Ftrm of -2% and a ST_Ftrm of -14%. You should gradually take out fuel in the fuel map until the fuel trims come back down to around zero.
The difference between the LT_Ftrm and the ST_Ftrm is simple. The ST_Ftrm's are what the computer is doing at that specific point in time. The LT_Ftrm is the trend that the computer is seeing.
You know how they say your computer "learns"? Well, they are talking about the LT_Ftrm. Over time, the computer averages out the data it recieves and outputs it as a single variable (LT_Ftrm). When this is at or close to 0%, that means that you spend most the time with a 0% fuel trim correction factor.
When you disconnect the battery, this is the value that gets erased and must be "re-learned" in order for the car to run at its potential.
Typically i like to see fuel trims between +5% and -5% on the LT_Ftrm.
and the way I do that is by subtracting out of the airflow map & adding in the additional injector map in emanage ?
Do I got it right so far.......I have easy access to scan tools at my shop. For sure friday I'll spend all day messing with it! I've already got a map made in replica of your new maps. I'll try that and see how we go!
Last edited by FoSho; 12-04-2007 at 09:59 PM.
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be careful using my map as im sure it wont be perfect let alone perfect for yours. When i did 90% of my street tune i started with ULTRA rich and worked my way back from there. thanks for the props but im far from good at this, i learn something new EVERY time i play with it or talk/research about it. My biggest obstacle originally was understanding the short/long term trim and grasping how it can really screw ya up if you dont understand it.
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Tom, what software are you using with your OBD scanner? The scanner I have is a standalone that has a live data readout on it which allows me to see LT/ST fuel trim. I can freezeframe on it to tune certain points of the RPM map, but unfortunately there's no output from the scanner.
Once I get back from Germany, I will be spending a lot of time getting my tune dialed in, especially since I will have the new head and cam on it. Chris will be able to get me in the ballpark, but it's impossible for him to do the fine tuning via email.
Once I get back from Germany, I will be spending a lot of time getting my tune dialed in, especially since I will have the new head and cam on it. Chris will be able to get me in the ballpark, but it's impossible for him to do the fine tuning via email.
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Correct, I didn't "use" your maps. I took mine & adjusted alot of the idle properties on the air/fuel & injector maps. I also map one for the ignition.
They do have weeked tuning classes you can take...I seen one in Kansas City for AEM piggyback & standalone for $2000 for 3 days. WOWA!!
I guess it would be a need be if that was my job!
They do have weeked tuning classes you can take...I seen one in Kansas City for AEM piggyback & standalone for $2000 for 3 days. WOWA!!
I guess it would be a need be if that was my job!
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Rep Power: 303 Re: P1106 & Misfires revisted
Tom, what software are you using with your OBD scanner? The scanner I have is a standalone that has a live data readout on it which allows me to see LT/ST fuel trim. I can freezeframe on it to tune certain points of the RPM map, but unfortunately there's no output from the scanner.
Once I get back from Germany, I will be spending a lot of time getting my tune dialed in, especially since I will have the new head and cam on it. Chris will be able to get me in the ballpark, but it's impossible for him to do the fine tuning via email.
Once I get back from Germany, I will be spending a lot of time getting my tune dialed in, especially since I will have the new head and cam on it. Chris will be able to get me in the ballpark, but it's impossible for him to do the fine tuning via email.
That at home and a Genisys @ work
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So Clint... tuning VIA email would get me a base map, is what you're saying? And with a laptop I'd have to fine-tune the PCS XFC myself?
So basically - Chris could get me to not blow up, but I'd have to extract my maximum potential myself?
One last question for all of you - how about air temperature shifts? I get 90º summers and below freezing winters... can a piggyback stay on the same tune or will I need a map for each season... LOL
So basically - Chris could get me to not blow up, but I'd have to extract my maximum potential myself?
One last question for all of you - how about air temperature shifts? I get 90º summers and below freezing winters... can a piggyback stay on the same tune or will I need a map for each season... LOL
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****, mine has seen 110 degree days & 0 degree nights already. She runs like a champ. Alittle doggy in the heat but I ran her with a/c on & she did fine. My car drives awesome in the winter when warmed up. I know my afr's at idle are a tad different verus the temp outside but nothing too crazy.
As long as she doesn't blow up. Plus, the stock computer is still there to render changes to atmosphere, temp, humidity, etc....
As long as she doesn't blow up. Plus, the stock computer is still there to render changes to atmosphere, temp, humidity, etc....
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In theory seasons will effect it a little. I notice mine in the winter runs about .5 leaner @ WOT . I prolly should adjust it but im to lazy and havent blown it up yet So if it aint broke dont fix it right lol
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Well, I haven' had a check engine light until I change inj. correction to 220-310.......WOT is still 11.9-12.3ish..........my idle is still surging from a stable 14.7 down to 13.9 & 16.0!!! Cruise is @ 14.7 as long as I'm on gas alittle.
So now that I have my WOT & check engine light safe, I want to concentrate my efforts on idle & work my way up the rpm scale.
tnaff, couple questions about your car.
Does your idle stay rock solid @ 14.7ish or does your bounce back & forth aswell. If no, how do you adjust a surge like that. What map affects idle....I'm guessing the values I have at low rpm are causing that.
For LT & ST what values should I expect to see at idle.....should I try to get withint +-5% of 0 at idle aswell?
Also, I have heard the surging back & forth at a steady cruise is also normal? Is this all correct? I understand afr's but I've never had a guage before. I don't know whats normal? I wish I could have had this on my car before I had turbo. Then I would know what the stock engine considers normal afr's all the way through the rpm range. By that info I could try my best to get close to those numbers. You always need a point to start from & look back to. Trial & error you know?
So now that I have my WOT & check engine light safe, I want to concentrate my efforts on idle & work my way up the rpm scale.
tnaff, couple questions about your car.
Does your idle stay rock solid @ 14.7ish or does your bounce back & forth aswell. If no, how do you adjust a surge like that. What map affects idle....I'm guessing the values I have at low rpm are causing that.
For LT & ST what values should I expect to see at idle.....should I try to get withint +-5% of 0 at idle aswell?
Also, I have heard the surging back & forth at a steady cruise is also normal? Is this all correct? I understand afr's but I've never had a guage before. I don't know whats normal? I wish I could have had this on my car before I had turbo. Then I would know what the stock engine considers normal afr's all the way through the rpm range. By that info I could try my best to get close to those numbers. You always need a point to start from & look back to. Trial & error you know?
Last edited by FoSho; 12-06-2007 at 08:33 AM.
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when im at a constant cruise it stays pretty even, it prolly bounces .2-8???? maybe? As far as idle goes are you saying that if you just let it sit it bounces that much? Or is it bouncing that much from coming down from a cruise to like a stop light ? Your long term trim @ idle should pretty much ZERO. And what i mean @ idle is the car has sat @ idle for a few minutes. If your referring to idle as coming to a stop light and its bouncing than that most likely is being caused from your long term trim at what ever cruise RPM you were just @. If that makes sense And when you say surge does if physically surge or are you referring to the AFR's bouncing some?
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In stock setup its always trying for 14.7:1 I think that may change under WOT. And say your cruising at 65mph and let off the gas ..... Mine drops to max LEAN in fact mine is a PLX windband and its says AIR as in there aint no fuel lol until the RPMs come down and im almost to a stop it slowly gets richer and richer untill its 14.7:1
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My car cold start up usually goes right to 14.7-8, rarley does it jump 10-11ish. So, usually start up idle the afr's will still bounce between 13.8 & 16.0!! Even after warming up the idle will still bounce. Come off cruise it does start off lean & work itself back to 14.7....then.....it dips to 13.8ish then back slowly to 15.6-16.0ish.
While cruising when with slight gas the afr's will surge back & forth. The car does not stumble. As soon as you give it gas you can see the afr get richer but it is continuely bouncing rich to lean.
*2 days check engine light free, no pending codes either
While cruising when with slight gas the afr's will surge back & forth. The car does not stumble. As soon as you give it gas you can see the afr get richer but it is continuely bouncing rich to lean.
*2 days check engine light free, no pending codes either
Last edited by FoSho; 12-06-2007 at 11:17 PM.
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im wondering if there me something other than the tune thats causing it to surge on AFR's?
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anybody know of a way to clean an O2 sensor?? i'm getting a "no activity bank 1, sensor 1" code 0301
just want to try that before i replace it....
just want to try that before i replace it....
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Make sure it's plugged in first. I know it's an obvious thing, but if it's showing "no activity", I'd check the connection to see if it's dirty or otherwise impaired. After that, if it still doesn't work, just pull it off and soak it in some gas.
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