Soldja210

I have an 03' Civic ex stock, and I have a dream...

My bare-bone goal for this Civic is 300 whp with decent torque(atleast 220)

I don't really care about track times, I'm more into the show aspect of Imports. I want to produce a real clean cut show car with decent power to shut the mouths of haters.

After reading oh so many posts on "swaps vs. turbo", "K20a2 vs. K20a3", and so many others.... I'm still stuck in my plans. I have went from wanting a B18C, to a K20a2, to staying with my D17A2 all in one week; not to mention the age old question of NA or FI.

I need your Opinions... Opinions of people who have actually done swaps, turbos, or combos of the two. Money is not a factor in this discussion although please do posts your budgets... just know that I'm not looking for the cheapest way around things.

Oh... and hi to all prior members or civic forums. I'm new and have learned so much from your all too interesting threads.

RHCP0801

iTrader: (3)

gsniper666

iTrader: (1)

personally i think u would get the most respect on a n/a setup on the d17.... its something we have all talked about.... turbo would be interesting... but you would be pushing it if it were to be a daily driver.... the k20 swap would work very well with your goals and is the simplest way to go at it... but that is the fact... its the easiest......

i think it would be better if you also said if it was a daily driver or not... how much u would deal with in driveability

hwt101

iTrader: (12)

the baddest 7thgen in the world ( and the fastest i believe) has a b18 in it and a spoiler, but yeah if you ahve the money and the time do a NA build the right way ( although getting 300 is very UN realistic) a stage 3 cam, 12.1 or higher compression over bored pistons, crower maxi light rods, arp head studs, sleeves, hondata or aem, and some major port and polishing done with a flow bench. Now if you really want to be custom and your car happens to be an 01 they did make an H22 prelude that year and that has not been done in our cars as far as i have heard and it would be SICK starting out with 200 is a nice number to build on and its a very strong motor(trust me i get to ride in an h22 w/12psi on it and it is fast )

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

I think this topic is worthy of being open for a while- it has potential to become a good thread with peoples budgets- we know how much a k swap costs, but internal mods and tuning time included usually get left out. Same goes for an NA setup- either you get the price, or you get the numbers. This could become a good info block.

I'd like to see you go for getting 300 NA. You will almost have to turbo it to get that much, but maybe you got some ideas no1s thought of before, maybe.

Good luck with the build/swap.

dcoffman07

What I want to see is a NA 300h/p daily driver...i'm sick of FI engines. The best way to do it I think would be an engine swap with K20/24 and build the hell out of it!

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

I thought you wanted an NA D17. You'd probably be able to hit 300 NA with a swap for sure. Our engine is pretty stuborn though- with other engines you change the header and get 30hp, with ours you get.. 4hp at best?

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

I'm not.

A 300 whp NA D17 would be pretty close to impossible. All depends on your what you want to end up with. A 7th gen with a different car's engine in it, or truly built D17. My personal opinion is to go for something different, maybe a supercharged D17? Those are not common, and to my knowledge, no one makes a "bolt-on" kit for the D17. If money is no object, that would be a pretty unique mod and may have the added benefit of gaining some support for a manufacturer to carry one. Just a thought.

Soldja210

OK... I have a few questions.

1. If I start out NA with a swap, and get pretty far into the building process... could I still go FI without scraping all my previous work.

2. What has more potential for build; B18C5, K20A, or H22A(haven't seen too much discussion on this one)

3. TRIZ - when you say " Our engine is pretty stuborn though " , what engine are you referring to? (Oh and nice tracks )

4. Thoughts on the supercharger post.

Also to clarify... this will not be a daily driver... but the occasional cruiser of course.

gsniper666

iTrader: (1)

you could go forced at any point.. but things would have to be chanced... such as camshafts for n/a to turbo.... headers would be eliminated.... a bunch of stuff would change.... and u'd be throwing away some money if it wasn't considered correctly....

the b18 is not a direct swap.... the k20 is most likely ur best choice as it has the highest potential... you could also consider the k24 head on the engine as well.....i don't know about the h22... so ill leave it to someone else.....

the engine he is refering to is the d17a1 and the d17a2.. its a good engine... but bad for modifications... the engine runs good only on low boost unless heavily modified and it is mostly unresponsive to mods.... an i/h/e would really only yield about 10 hp for us....

a super charger would be the most original... i have seen some talk on here... but no follow through... it would probly open up new possibilities for the rest of us also.. it could be done... and there are some people around here that know enough about the engine to help you out

ronaldo9

iTrader: (6)

I'll make this really simple. The only way you can make 300hp on a d17 is with a turbo. 10+ pounds on a nice t3/t4 (stick to dezod) with some big injectors (SRT4) and good fuel management (EMS/Kpro) and a nice turbo cam (stage 2 or 3) and voila; say hello to 300hp. If you want to swap you'll still need forced induction whether it be a supercharger or turbo to make 300 hp. Only thing swappable in a 7th gen is a k series engine plain and simple.

hwt101

iTrader: (12)

not true ronaldo, the K swap is u a huge PITA swap the only diff. between it and a b18 swap is that people make brackets and a "wiring Harness' for it, the 01 gsr can be swapped with custom parts made and your own wiring, also never heard of the h22 going in our cars so clearance might be an isssue but if not it would be sick and original, and as far as i knwo you DO NOT put the k24 head on a K swap you use the bottom end of a k24 w/the k20 a or a2 head on it for the frank swap. Also you dont have to have forced induction on a B or K or H for 300hp it can be built and tuned NA and reach that number, but i think on a show circuit turbos/chargers get you more poitns especially w/a swap

ronaldo9

iTrader: (6)

Hwt101 I'm not debating whether other engines can be swapped but you must agree the only user friendly swap is a k series and yes it is a PITA. The most I've seen N/A on a track car b18c was 250whp. On a K it won't be that much higher. Bolt-ons will not get you to 300whp on a k series. You'll need serious internals to do that including PnP head work and such. I guess I'll rephrase my statement. The EASIEST way to make 300whp is with forced induction.

I will also add swapping in a b18 or h22 will be illegal since you have an 03so those engines are out of the question for your goals. This topic has been exhausted but I hope I have given you things to consider.

gsniper666

iTrader: (1)

my bad on the confusing the k24 and k20 head.... it was a mistake.... but i've seen numerous members on here with the t3/t4 hybrid turbo running over 300 boost.. its just that u need to run a bunch of systems... like the one guy on here with a hybrid turbo that running like 340 hp with a 75 shot of nos

DaMadScientist

iTrader: (10)

lot of misinformation

About the B18C5, and B series motor can be fit into our cars, it has been done, you need to weld up custom motor mounts, hwt101, needs to read more, mounting the tranny is all custom as well as running all the shifter cables is and you need to do some custome fitting for the tranny.

The most hp out of a N/A B18C was 320 HP, the car ran low 10's i believe, there is a thread on HT about a guy who is building a 300 HP B18C, before hand it was 265 HP daily driven, alot of work, custom parts out the wazzo

300 HP on a SOHC especially ours, its not nearly impossible...it is impossible, impossible is not the word...its more of unattainable

Soldja210

Well I still have plenty of time to decide what route to go... I deploy to Iraq in early Sept. I'm leaning heavily towards K-series swap(thanks ronaldo9 for clarifying the legality issue)... just debating on FI or NA. We'll see what new innovations come out within the year of 2007- early 08.

check out this Project RSX-S.... the article is old and I cant find an updated one on the net... but if you pick up the July 07 issue of Modified Mag, Its the featured Car of the Month boasting 320hp all-motor.

http://todaracingusa.com/article?t=7&id=2

Stroked K20Z engine block, increasing from 1998 cc to 2157cc. Dyno'd at 280whp and 202 lbs/ft. TONS of engine mods all TODA and Mugen body = totally sick RSX.

ronaldo9

iTrader: (6)

I apologize for my lack of knowledge of B18's and k's hitting 300hp n/a. I guess its not so much impossible but IMPRACTICAL. Just think about how much money it would take to match those numbers, when you can boost for half the price and make the same power.

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

money isnt an issue he said.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Yep, he's deploying so he gets to make some bank. All the special pay, tax-free, and more importantly - NOTHING TO SPEND IT ON till he gets home!

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Just wondering why is a b or h illegal and a k is legal? Does it have to do with the modifiying?

LT2004ever

iTrader: (2)

SC d17 no.... SC k20 here ya go
been done
TransformedBG - Supercharged K20 - 277whp 210tq 13.5@107.20mph Civic
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/6...cond-club.html

and as for the TS
heres a good list of some boosted, SC, swapped vics here
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...ould-know.html

LT2004ever

iTrader: (2)

not supposed to swap older motors in newer cars i believe... but thats just my 2 cents

and hwt101 yea that civic was gah!
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/6...1-825-mph.html

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

Pick from the get go. The only thing that would cross over is probably the air filter, and the ECU box. Everything else will go in opposite directions.

TakumiFujiwara

It's not like a cop is going to pull you over and ask to see what engine is in your car...

ronaldo9

iTrader: (6)

There's something called inspection that ppl need to pass to stay street legal.

Unevolved

Dude, why is this thread open? The OP hasn't been online in close to a year.

emjay

iTrader: (2)

let me tell u one thing man ... If u wanna do a k20 .. and get 300 u'd have to build internals + pay for swap .. or k20 and boost ... either way its gona run u over 10grand for everything ...

Trust me on this one ... stick with ur d17 jus cuz its a rare motor to work on, + it is ur ORIGINAL engine so ur really reppin ur OWN kind .. with 10 grand .. u can fully build ur d17 and get a dezod kit (the best) with the right turbo, u can be 350whp RELIABLY and very easily.. but again its never reliable when ur boosting 20 pounds but u know what i mean, u have nothing to worry about in terms of blowing ur engine if u get a good tune. With that said ... imagine a k20 + boost .. everyone is expecting that thing to smoke everyone .. until u spank him with ur d17 haha that is one priceless moment and that is the ONLY reason i would build the d17 instead of paying to swap it out ... cuz u get the same amount of power for the money spent ... the only were the platform stops is that with a k20 .. u can build and boost and thats 600 whp but thats out of the question ... u dun wanna swap+build+boost .. so for 350whp .. i say 100% go with teh d17 .. its almost 7 grand to finish up a k20 in ur car, thats fully built with most of ur turbo parts .. nothing is more fun then being underestimated ... a k20 is always like woohooo so jus SPANK them