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functions of EMS> any function that emanage can provide
the bottom line is you can tune a piggyback but its just that a piggyback you will never have full control and creat correct fuel and ignition maps or raise the rev limiter with out the EMS. you can modify signals all day long but nothing compares to the real thing

 
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Obviously.
But I don't think you NEED full control on a boosted EM2 unless it's an extreme set-up.

And who says you can't raise the rev limiter with out the EMS?

"Modifying signals" can get 90% of the people on this website their desired and attainable results.

So the E-Manage Ultimate does everything I NEED it to do, plus more.

I don't NEED to spend anywhere close to $1600 to get the effect I want.

 
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plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD. you have to think how good a tune really is whith a modified signal. basically you hacking the computers signals to make it read what you want. the problem with this is you will never have a linear fuel curve. you not actually changing any maps nor creating you own. so what happens is the computer is running off of stock maps with a piggy back modifying the signal the computer is reading, this does not allow you to fully tune the computer. all the sensors run off of voltage we will say -5/+5 volts. now the emanage will adjust off of the amount of voltage it recieves but only in certain increments causing an inconsistant map. it cant read say .25 volt increments so when it makes its adjustment its over or under compensating and constatnly trying to correct the signal inlike a stand alone unit. you will gain more power with a EMS tune rather then the emanage. and you will have more options to choose from allowing for a better tune all together. i believe that our rev limiter is controlled by ignition cut and that is triggered by the cam and crank sensors which cannot be modified or the vehicle will nto run correctly. if you have raised your rev limiter with the ultimate then please post a video of it. i have yet to see anyone accomplish this and would like confirmation since its been asked a millions times in this thread and you seem to just conviently disregard the question

 
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Where do I start?

1. The E-Manage dosen't have a rev limiter change, the E-Manage Ultimate, which I am the only one with a Em2 W/ one installed that I know of does. So "plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD" does not pertain to what I am talking about.

2. "basically you hacking the computers signals to make it read what you want. the problem with this is you will never have a linear fuel curve."

Yes and no, too lengthy to get into.

3. "so what happens is the computer is running off of stock maps with a piggy back modifying the signal the computer is reading"

Yes, the E-Manage Ultimate is a piggyback, I know what a piggyback is. You would think I knew this already no?

4. "you will gain more power with a EMS tune rather then the emanage."

Although I can agree in certain cases, when it comes to a mildly built D17 I might tend to differ.

5. "i have yet to see anyone accomplish this and would like confirmation since its been asked a millions times in this thread and you seem to just conviently disregard the question"

I never said I have changed the rev limiter, ever. And I did not "conviently" disregard the question, if you READ the WHOLE thread I asked if it was fuel cut. I even said I thought it was ignition cut, I then stated that if it was fuel cut I might be able to get it to work.

So please don't come back in here spewing BS.

 
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show me one bit of BS that i posted. nothing i said was incorrect and there have been people that have switched from emanage to ems and saw a significant increase in power along with being able to tune in higher boost levels. the ultimate isnt too much differnt than its predecessor blue, besides having a few more options. the way it hacks the signal is still the same and you can see if the afr how its always over and under compensating. all you have done is picked apart my post and you didnt even have anything relevant to say. the last time you spoke of the rev change in this thread you said you havent replied in 2 weeks


so everyone has been discussing it, then you jump in, down my back and start mouthing off nonsense. your obviously not as smart as you think you are, that is why i decided to explain what a piggyback is, and its not just a name its called a piggyback because you not really changing anything just modifying. it may be a newer piggyback technology but it will never be what a true ecu will be


i am not here to fight man, i am here for the same reason you are and posting in this thread to also find out if you got the rev limiter change to function. i assumed not because you havent replied to the question in 2 weeks. just like everyone else i was curious. maybe you dont want the EMS its not for everyone but dont go as far as saying youll ever get as good of a tune out of it as you will with the EMS. its physically impossible!!!!

 
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No it's not.

A piggyback and a standalone try to achieve the same basic goal on a turbo car.
A target AFR, so it the EMS can tune the fuel to a 12.5 for instance, I can do the exact same thing on a piggyback.
So can you tell me how 12.5 AFR on a Piggyback is different then 12.5 AFR on a standalone?

How do you "see" this? This oughta be interesting...

Wrong...again.
The E-Manage blue tunes via the MAP sensor. It alters the Map sensor, which is one the biggest knocks on Piggybacks. The Ultimate dosen't alter fuel by the Map sensor, it alters the injector signal.

Now, I haven't been avoiding anything.
I work a lot, so a lot of times when I think I'm going to work on my car I don't because I have other things to do.
Plus the rev limiter is the last on my list as far as the E-Manage goes. I want to get it tuned and running 100% before I go messing with the rev limiter.

And the reason I got aggressive is because you DID post a lot of wrong information.

Again, the E-manage Blue DOES NOT have a rev limiter change function, the Ultimate does. Andyman97 never got the Ultimate working, I don't even think he got around to even trying the rev limiter change and if he did he never posted it.

So just who tried changing the rev limiter?

Wrong again. When you mash the throttle the ECUs enter a closed loop mode, Dezod explained in a previous thread how that maybe be adjusted prior to entering the map and I believe it was a 15% change. At WOT the ECU only adjusts right before it starts moving, NOT while you are going, until you let off.


Wrong to an extent.
The E-Manage alters injector (the most important part of tuning) after it sees the ECU, not "modifying the signal the computer is reading".

 
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sorry man but a target afr is a target afr now how the computer achieves that is 2 totally different fashions. one hacks a signal and the other reads a programmed map. if you dont understand that i am not going any further with you because its not worth my time. and i am not going to argue with a brick wall. hacking a signal is hacking a signal as i stated before the emanage whether it be blue or ultimate will not give a linear fuel curve because the emanage cant give the right adjustment it always over compensates and then has to correct the over compensation and undercompensate. this is the way a PIGGYBACK works. and you can clearly see through a dyno or datalog how much smoother and better a stand alone is.

 
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Lol.
Ok, I meant to say AFR, not target.

You still haven't answered my question.

What's the difference between 12.5 AFR on an E-Manage and 12.5 on an EMS?

Fine one hacks a signal and one has a map, but if you can achieve your target AFR with an E-Manage, an EMS won't tune AFR any better, it's not THAT hard of a concept to understand.

You are the brick wall, you answered one of the things I stated you were wrong on, what about the other things I asked? Like you said "you seem to just conviently disregard the question".

Can anyone back me up here?

 
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idk what you guys need backing up on. its apples and oranges. let it go

 
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ugh, why always so much reading??? lol
anyways

standalone > piggy back

ems>emanage>vafc

300>1600
200>600 (average tune cost)

so bottom line is ems is better, but its just a mildly built D17, so bang for the buck really puts the emanage ahead in this case. and unless youre really pushing the limits of your boosted d17 the ems really just turns into a waste, money wise.

and lets not claim the emanage is 300, its not worth having without optional harnesses n ****.(i know i still said 300 in my comparison lol)

plus, ems means bye bye inspection sticker at least in MA because every other year they plug into your DLC to check systems and everything.

 
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yea ok,
emanage- 300 plus 3 harnesses 100 bucks plus software. 100 bucks more. 500 bucks total. still better than 1600 bucks at least...

 
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the difference in a 12.5 afr on the emanage and 12.5 afr on the ems is a consistant afr one where the computer isnt consistantly trying to over and under compensate becasue its doesnt get a real reading just a hacked signal. there is your answer. but i amnot going to retort its not worth the arugment you may not want ems you may not need ems but its is still a better tune and better engine management system hands down and you will achieve a better tune through the ems that is the bottom line that you seem to want to argue about LOL

 
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i think he just meant an EMS is overkill on mild boost applications.

 
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it probably is, but that doesnt mean you cant get more power out of an EMS tune than you can with a emanage tune. which is his whole argument and is incorrect. its a stand alone for a reason it is a much better way of tuning and that is a given. his whole trip is he cant get more power by tuning with a EMS which is complete bull shyt. not to mention that 95% of people who do end up boosting also end up turning up the boost after a while. taking that into consideration if you looking for more power than EMS is the best option especially considering that becasue of the fine tuning it will allow ytou to increase the boost higher than the emanage will allow you to tune. there are only so many sensor adjustments you can make. a map is a way better way of tuning. that is why i am just not going to argue with the guy. he knows all so who am i to correct him? LOL

 
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there's a reason why so many turbo/all motor guys go with stand alone units. Even those with "mild" setups use the EMS. It will produce more power over the emanage anyday. Ask Andyman97,SuperMex & 02fpcivic our 3 top turbo members why they switched to the EMS.

 
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dude its cause they can afford it/got sponsored. give me a break. if i had 2k to drop on a ECU then i would get the EMS. duh. not everyone can afford it.

 
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Prove it.

Of course an EMS is better unit and will ultimately gain more power. I am not denying that.

The reason people switch to standalone is because they have more extreme set-ups, bigger injectors and more boost.

Now in MY case, which is my argument, I don't need an EMS. And yes, an EMS might gain a tad bit more power in MY case, it would not be worth the extra money.

I don't see how an EMS can do THAT much more power.

I'm talking basic mechanics here.

If engine one does 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband on a boosted motor with an EMS and the same engine does 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband on a standalone the horsepower will be the same. To tell me it won't be is denyng basic logic.

For example.

Let's say Injector A requires 5 V of power to run @ 100% Duty Cycle, which will give you a nice 12.0 AFR throughout the powerband (This would almost never apply in real life, but just for arguments sake). This is on a EMS.

Now, without changing the parameters I want to acheive the same effect with a piggyback.
So I need to get it to 5V to acheive that 12.0 AFR.

5V is 5V no matter what, it dosen't matter if it hacked, or modified, who cares you are doing the same thing.


It's the OTHER features that an EMS has that allow it to give more power.
BUT in a midly built D17, like MINE, you won't see much of a power gain.


You have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you know what Closed loop is?

One more time, in closed loop the factory ECU does not "Over and under compensate". Is it THAT HARD to understand?

 
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so, have you encountered any problems of the ecu causing conflicts with the emanage?

 
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but at part throttle the ecu isnt in closed loop. just at WOT. and at part throttle that is where a real tune from an EMS comes into play with MAPS. a hacked signal doesnt give a consistant afr at least no where near the EMS. as in a previous post in this thread which i am not going to explain again it takes an undercompensation for the sensor to make an adjustment then it over compensates. that is the bottom line. and as i stated many many times now it may not be your choice but several times now you have stated it wont give a better tune. now in your past post you say it will. so which is it? it seems you cant even make up your mind let alone understand why there is a difference. oterwise everyone would run emanage on every vehicle and ther would be no need for stand alone units. your fighting a dead horse man and now you back peddling from your previous statements. and trying to correct an emanage user XSR. you want proff go look it up. we dont need to provide you the info we had to learn and look it up ourselves. so you go post in every thread that other users have posted in showing dyno number difference going from emanage to EMS and gained power and tell them its BS. you arent doing anything here besides making yourself look dumb by trying to argue with fact. and after its been said by numerous people you are retracting your statement but still want to argue. what is your deal man????

 
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are you referring to me? because if so you need to chill out and re-read my post.

 
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no no that is too hwoody77

 
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Ok, you are contradicting yourself.

You said

Ok.

What are you talking about?

You are making no sense.
Because of fine tuning you can increase the boost levels, now that is pretty much only done at WOT.
Adjusting fuel at anything other than WOT will not allow you to increase boost levels.

Then you say But I'm not talking about part throttle, last time I checked I'm talking about making power at WOT, and obviously you aren't either because you said

And when a car is dynoed that is WOT.

Guess what buddy. A dyno chart is for tuning at WOT, where if you know what you are doing you will can get a consistent AFR whether you use an E-Manage or an EMS. Which is my original argument.

Ok so now your talking about part throttle again...where EVERY ECU over and under compensates. Your factory ECU does it, your Piggybacked ECU does it, and guess what...so does the EMS!

Maybe you should learn the different between WOT, closed loop, open loop, part throttle and what your ECU is doing during those times.


Now.

I've been on these forums for WAY longer then you have. So don't tell me

Because I've read it all.

Why don't you show me where someone gained power from just switching a E-Manage to standalone in a EM2 on this forum.
You can't, I promise.



So to recap.

I am stating WOT tuning, which is where people tune at.

You are saying that an EMS is better then an E-Manage because it dosen't over and under compensate...

But that's not what's happening at WOT.

So then you say part throttle, but people don't dyno at part throttle...?


BTW you still have avoided answering anything about the following wrong statements.

"the ultimate isnt too much differnt than its predecessor blue, besides having a few more options. the way it hacks the signal is still the same"

"plenty of people that have tried the emanage have relayed that they we unsucessful in raising the rev limiter as well as people like DEZOD"

BTW...

This is how ALL ECUs work buddy.

AND I haven't backpeddled anywhere in this thread. Go reread what I wrote and then go read some more on ECUs so you can understand how they work.

 
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damn guys what a way to kill his thread.

 
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seriously, i am tired of fighting its getting really old to sit and have to repeat myself time and time again its old. so im done , its not worth it you do what you want. that is how its going to be any way and the original argument has now been skewed becasue he doesnt like to be wrong. he is doing everything he can to make me look like the one who is wrong when this whole arugment started because he says you cant get a beter tune with EMS than you can with emanage. so since we all know that is wrong i am not going to participate in this any more. its worse than talking to a 3yr old which i am used to considering i have one.

 
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Surrender noted.

 
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owned

counter-owned

 
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the only thing i surrendered are deez nutz on your chin, as i stated before i am not going to continue to repeat myself. it honestly feels like i am talking to my 3yr old. all you want to do is argue and its not even about the same subject. you keep trying to change things up so you can seem like you right but the fact will remain the a EMS tune> emanage tune any day any time 24/7/365!!!

 
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so on leap years, which one is better?

 
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i find that as long as your in the leap year it doenst effect anything but if your not then it changes everything sometimes