fmu + dyno tune
Originally Posted by jamie_civic
ya i know, at 4 psi i can probly get away with no fuel system, if all my sensors were hooked up right and all that....the ecu can handle that kinda boost.
And as far as getting an adjustable fpr, you can't tweak it to run optimum afr's. You can't adjust it but to run a set amount of pressure. Guess what...if you're using stock injectors, you don't want to run the same pressure under all driving conditions if you have nothing to adjust pulsewidth.
Everyone seems to think that a return line is a necessity also. Let me expel that myth also. With my current setup, I'm running the stock fpr with an upgraded fuel pump and larger injectors. No return line, no adjustable fpr. It isn't necesarry if you properly size your injectors. Fuel management/Engine management is the last place anyone boosting should consider taking a shortcut.
i dont think its a shortcut at all...im sure you know quite a bit about our cars fuel setup and everything you need to boost and manage fuel but i think other people know alot aswell, and at 4 psi the fuel pressure isnt going to spike all that much, the injectors can and will handle that kind of pressure.
Originally Posted by jamie_civic
i dont think its a shortcut at all...im sure you know quite a bit about our cars fuel setup and everything you need to boost and manage fuel but i think other people know alot aswell, and at 4 psi the fuel pressure isnt going to spike all that much, the injectors can and will handle that kind of pressure.
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From: Houma, Louisiana
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there are always used emanage systems and rsx injectors for sale at good prices.. that alone will be 300% better than what you are doing with that pos. if you continue to run this system, eventually your fuel system will fail..(injectors lock up) your car will lean out and your motor will blow. you will never be able to achieve the same power levels that you would if you used an actual engine management system.
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From: Houma, Louisiana
Rep Power: 305 This quote was taken from this thread "FAQ: Return line vs other methods "
This is directly from 'Turboengnr' who worked with a company that produced the very first turbo kit for our cars. he designed the fuel system and built 100s maybe 1000s of turbo kits for different makes/models. understand now?
The rising rate fuel pressure multipliers works by adding a set amount of fuel pressure as the boost rises. So basically as you make boost, the fuel system will increase the fuel pressure by a given amount (usually 12 psi) for ever 1 psi of boost.
The downfalls to this system are
1. you are limited on the amount of boost you can run. If the fuel system comes with a 125 psi fuel pump, you can only make that much pressure. So with our cars having a base fuel pressure of about 45 psi, we only have 80 psi of fuel pressure to play with. So with a 12:1 ratio, you are only able to run 6.66 psi of boost before you run out of fuel.
2. The fuel delivery is not exact. It does not deliver the same amount of boost for every psui it increases. As the pressure rises, the rate at which the flow increases tapers off. This means that when you increase the fuel pressure from 45 to 55 psi, it delivers X amount of fuel. Then from 55 to 65 psi it delivers X-Y amount of fuel. Then 65 to 75 psi it delivers X-Z amount of fuel. With each step, it increases the flow rate by less and less. Though it does not taper off very much, it makes its precision less than that of the other methods
3. The last reason is because it can damage your injectors. After running such high fuel pressure all the time, the internal discs inside the stock injectors can become warped or bent. This can cause several things: the injector can never close, or the injector will not be able to flow as much fuel as stock.
The downfalls to this system are
1. you are limited on the amount of boost you can run. If the fuel system comes with a 125 psi fuel pump, you can only make that much pressure. So with our cars having a base fuel pressure of about 45 psi, we only have 80 psi of fuel pressure to play with. So with a 12:1 ratio, you are only able to run 6.66 psi of boost before you run out of fuel.
2. The fuel delivery is not exact. It does not deliver the same amount of boost for every psui it increases. As the pressure rises, the rate at which the flow increases tapers off. This means that when you increase the fuel pressure from 45 to 55 psi, it delivers X amount of fuel. Then from 55 to 65 psi it delivers X-Y amount of fuel. Then 65 to 75 psi it delivers X-Z amount of fuel. With each step, it increases the flow rate by less and less. Though it does not taper off very much, it makes its precision less than that of the other methods
3. The last reason is because it can damage your injectors. After running such high fuel pressure all the time, the internal discs inside the stock injectors can become warped or bent. This can cause several things: the injector can never close, or the injector will not be able to flow as much fuel as stock.
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From: Middleboro,MA
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What a stupid thread lol. Not to be mean but dude post up pics when your "internals" become "externals", when your ring lands finally land, and/or your connecting rods turn into dis-connecting rods. Its most likely gunna happen so I would plan it into the budget, hehe. Ill say it one more time FMU=F**ks Motors Up. 
alright well i know emanage is a good idea and i am looking to get it but for right now the fmu is better than no fuel system at all...
so tell me...if i get it from dezod theres a package that includes:
emanage main unit, pnp injector+ignition harness and the support tool.....am i all set to hook it up and get it tuned with that, or am i missing anything?
so tell me...if i get it from dezod theres a package that includes:
emanage main unit, pnp injector+ignition harness and the support tool.....am i all set to hook it up and get it tuned with that, or am i missing anything?
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From: Houma, Louisiana
Rep Power: 305 that would be all you need as far as engine managment goes. Spend an extra $50-$80 on some used rsx-s injectors (310 cc) then you'll be set
Originally Posted by Civic_RedLine
the fmu is better than nothing, but dont plan on using it forever. I used the fmu for about two oil changes before I blew my hg..
kept it around 4-5 psi too
kept it around 4-5 psi too
(not trying to be an *** i just dont understand)
Originally Posted by andyman97
You should probably consider picking up an emanage pressure sensor as well. makes tuning more accurate.
Originally Posted by 02fpcivic
detonation....lack of proper fuel tuning will blow a headgasket in a hurry. I think the emanage is pretty much useless for boosting our cars without that sensor.
The pressure sensor is strictly a boost reference sensor for the emanage. No, it doesn't replace the map sensor. The emanage still uses the stock map to reference vacuum. And while you don't HAVE to have it, it isn't a good idea to cut it out, otherwise the emanage won't know how much boost you are making and it makes tuning more difficult and less accurate.
well anyways i found a used emanage and harness's that im probly gonna pick up then i just need to get a support tool, pressure sensor and pressure sensor harness....that stuff from dezod is 282$.
so all i really want to know is how big is the difference between having the pressure sensor and not having the pressure sensor? im not being cheap and cutting out a step(pressure sensor)...i just want to know.
so all i really want to know is how big is the difference between having the pressure sensor and not having the pressure sensor? im not being cheap and cutting out a step(pressure sensor)...i just want to know.
Don't cut it out of the equation. If you don't know what it does or why it's important, you should do some research on EFI for turbocharged applications. The info is out there, you just have to look.
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Rep Power: 297 I would definetely just get the sensor and the harness, no question about it. That sensor lets the emanage calibrate fuel and timing corrections based on boost. I think it would be foolish not to get it. As far as tuning goes, dont buy a wideband to try and street tune. Put that money into getting the car professionally tuned. Using an emanage to "fool" the ECU does require some finness. If you are asking all these questions I assure you you do not have the skills neccesary. Not trying to talk down to ya, just keeping it real. Boost is expensive, gotta deal with it or stay slow, hehe. Put everything together, wire up the harnesses, take off the charge pipe, put a filter on the intake, and drive it to the dyno. A few minutes is all it takes a lot of times to fry a motor if its lean.
Last edited by 02fpcivic; Feb 2, 2006 at 06:10 PM.
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From: Houma, Louisiana
Rep Power: 305 I just want to add something in here... the pressure sensor can only be used on additional injection and ignition maps. the airflow adjustment map uses only throttle position and rpm to tune with.
I think a wideband is essential to a turbo setup. If you bring it to get it tuned then you'll be good to go. What if something goes bad and causes him to be leaning out or something of that sort. Its always good to know whats going on with the motor and how its feeling whether you did the tuning or not. just my .02 cents.
I think a wideband is essential to a turbo setup. If you bring it to get it tuned then you'll be good to go. What if something goes bad and causes him to be leaning out or something of that sort. Its always good to know whats going on with the motor and how its feeling whether you did the tuning or not. just my .02 cents.
i wsnt planning on installing it myself at all, even though i am a mechanic...installing the turbo kit was one thing but installing and tuning an emanage i wouldnt even try....i already spoke to the guy thats doing my tuning and he knows im going to switch to emanage.
and as for the pressure sensor ya im gonna get it, just wanted to know some more about it.
and as for the pressure sensor ya im gonna get it, just wanted to know some more about it.
wow i was going to chime in here but it looks as though these guys have talked some sense into you. good luck and listen to people with more experience than you. you will learn alot.
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From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 297 well I meant if he has a choice of affording one or the other. I agree that having a wideband on board is a very handy tool. If the car is dyno tuned properly at 4 psi he will probably be a lot better off than having his friends street tuning the thing, trying to figure out why every time the car gets driven the fuel needs to be adjusted, hehe. Thats all I was trying to say really. If you could afford both then get a wideband too. In this case more tuning tools are better.
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