gotswap? 11's here I come
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I just caught this and apologize that it got passed me. With the gs-r he does have eagle rods in it. I thought I posted that earlier, my mistake. He has cp pistons and eagle rods but the actual block is still stock. So, the 12.1 was not just with pistons.
Now for people arguing that a d17 can't hit 11's.....why not? Give me one good reason why you can't make enough horsepower to hit that time with a fully built motor.
Now for people arguing that a d17 can't hit 11's.....why not? Give me one good reason why you can't make enough horsepower to hit that time with a fully built motor.
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Rep Power: 343 i don't know how much import drag racing you've watched, but have you seen the Civics that are in the 11's? they are fiberglass shells with a full tube frame under them and fully worked b16's, b18's, h22's.
I have never seen a SOHC coupe civic (of any year) in the 12's none the less the 11's unless it was a full fiberglass car.
There is one import shop around by me with a D16 in a 91 CRX they are in the 11's, but the car has a t60 fully gutted interior fiberglass nose and whatnot. about $30,000 invested into the car. And remember this is a 1900 lb car to start with not 2550. And this thing is fully gutted its down to about 1400 lbs. and this thing is barely into the 11's. like 11.7
Do you plan to do that much to your 2001 Civic?
I have never seen a SOHC coupe civic (of any year) in the 12's none the less the 11's unless it was a full fiberglass car.
There is one import shop around by me with a D16 in a 91 CRX they are in the 11's, but the car has a t60 fully gutted interior fiberglass nose and whatnot. about $30,000 invested into the car. And remember this is a 1900 lb car to start with not 2550. And this thing is fully gutted its down to about 1400 lbs. and this thing is barely into the 11's. like 11.7
Do you plan to do that much to your 2001 Civic?
Last edited by Hawk; Nov 19, 2003 at 08:22 AM.
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d17 can hit 11's. There isn't a reason why it can't. But if you want to get there, you can't just look at the motor and boost. You have to consider the drag of the body, power to weight ratio, proper weight distribution (suspension), and the tranny.
It is very easy for an boosted GSR to hit 12's, because it has a pretty good body drag, good gearing match for boosted characteristics and also a great starting hp. GSR can easily get into the 12's just with ~8 psi, a little suspension work (ureathane mounts and bushings, lower front end drop, stiffer rear suspension setting), and some good slicks. And all this, without the need of any internal work.
Try to hit 12's first and compare your list to that and you will see the work that is ahead of you to hit 11's. If you are serious about hitting 11's, the best way is to start is with suspension and weight reduction, then to power. There is just one simple reason for such. To make power is not hard, but to make street usable power is the hardest thing for any tuner. Monster power comes with monster prices of poor daily drivability, and poor fuel economy. Huge injectors must go with high boost; and in nature, huge injectors does not like low throttle blimping nor idling. So it is best for you to hit your goal with min amount of hp your motor can produce to hit 11's, so it will still be fun to drive. Keep that in mind, your dream will be a little easier to achieve.
Hawk,
What I have said here is gauging Hondas for the streets. 11's is hard for a daily driven Honda to achieve, but not for a tracked Honda. If those tracked Civics are stripped and fiberglassed, then those people are either just starting the project, or just tuning; well.. maybe they are beiginners. Tracked cars' suspension can be tuned to plant the front feet to the max, since it only goes straight. Tracked cars can run as much hp as it desires because it doesn't need to idle for long. Tracked cars doesn't need interiors because there aren't any passengers. Tracked cars.. etc. You get my point? It isn't impossible to hit 11's on the streets with a 7th gen, but it will be quiet difficult (to make it enjoyable).
Goto Reading PA and see the IDRC East Coast Nationals next year, and you will see all the finished track cars. 10-8's are what you will see, and Integras and Civics will be representing Honda. Look at them closely, and see what they act like when they are near stop. They all sound like they are sick, but all they are doing is complaining about how they don't want to stop.
d17 can hit 11's. There isn't a reason why it can't. But if you want to get there, you can't just look at the motor and boost. You have to consider the drag of the body, power to weight ratio, proper weight distribution (suspension), and the tranny.
It is very easy for an boosted GSR to hit 12's, because it has a pretty good body drag, good gearing match for boosted characteristics and also a great starting hp. GSR can easily get into the 12's just with ~8 psi, a little suspension work (ureathane mounts and bushings, lower front end drop, stiffer rear suspension setting), and some good slicks. And all this, without the need of any internal work.
Try to hit 12's first and compare your list to that and you will see the work that is ahead of you to hit 11's. If you are serious about hitting 11's, the best way is to start is with suspension and weight reduction, then to power. There is just one simple reason for such. To make power is not hard, but to make street usable power is the hardest thing for any tuner. Monster power comes with monster prices of poor daily drivability, and poor fuel economy. Huge injectors must go with high boost; and in nature, huge injectors does not like low throttle blimping nor idling. So it is best for you to hit your goal with min amount of hp your motor can produce to hit 11's, so it will still be fun to drive. Keep that in mind, your dream will be a little easier to achieve.
Hawk,
What I have said here is gauging Hondas for the streets. 11's is hard for a daily driven Honda to achieve, but not for a tracked Honda. If those tracked Civics are stripped and fiberglassed, then those people are either just starting the project, or just tuning; well.. maybe they are beiginners. Tracked cars' suspension can be tuned to plant the front feet to the max, since it only goes straight. Tracked cars can run as much hp as it desires because it doesn't need to idle for long. Tracked cars doesn't need interiors because there aren't any passengers. Tracked cars.. etc. You get my point? It isn't impossible to hit 11's on the streets with a 7th gen, but it will be quiet difficult (to make it enjoyable).
Goto Reading PA and see the IDRC East Coast Nationals next year, and you will see all the finished track cars. 10-8's are what you will see, and Integras and Civics will be representing Honda. Look at them closely, and see what they act like when they are near stop. They all sound like they are sick, but all they are doing is complaining about how they don't want to stop.
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Rep Power: 343 I've been to the compact nationals, and trust me i've seen some quick *** civics. (My favorites are the all motor cars) But none of those Civics in the 11's, 10's, 9's were cars you'd want to drive around on the daily, hell even around the block. The CRX i spoke of is a full track car, thing hasn't seen the road in years.
thats really my point, you really can't expect to have a streetable civic in the 11's. I really don't think he plans on turning this car into a track car. If i was planning on making a track car, i can tell you it wouldn't be new, but maybe i'm just crazy or something.
You can see 13's in a streetable Civic, its been proven, hell you might see a rare high 12 (i haven't) but getting into the 11's and below takes alot more work.
thats really my point, you really can't expect to have a streetable civic in the 11's. I really don't think he plans on turning this car into a track car. If i was planning on making a track car, i can tell you it wouldn't be new, but maybe i'm just crazy or something.
You can see 13's in a streetable Civic, its been proven, hell you might see a rare high 12 (i haven't) but getting into the 11's and below takes alot more work.
Last edited by Hawk; Nov 19, 2003 at 12:56 PM.
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Rep Power: 0 Instead of stating how fast SOHC can be, you should say something like this:
Hey guys, do you know what the difference is between a SOHC and a DOHC motors is?
The answer: the timing "between" the intake valves and the exhaust valves can be tuned via the cam gears in a DOHC engine (overlaps can be tuned in and out base on your desires); and to do the same tuning in a SOHC motor, you have to replace the cam with the proper grine. So, in short, their difference in performance? NOT A THING.
It isn't about what you see. It is about understanding how motors work. Hondas' SOHC cams actaully has the advantage for boost because of their low overlap design. After tuning many Hondas that has been tuned by other shops also allowed me to draw one conclusion. Most tuners can not tune DOHC correctly, because they don't understand the relationships between ignition timing and intake cam timing... Most DOHC cars would probably have more hp if they didn't have cam gears installed and tuned.
Hey guys, do you know what the difference is between a SOHC and a DOHC motors is?
The answer: the timing "between" the intake valves and the exhaust valves can be tuned via the cam gears in a DOHC engine (overlaps can be tuned in and out base on your desires); and to do the same tuning in a SOHC motor, you have to replace the cam with the proper grine. So, in short, their difference in performance? NOT A THING.
It isn't about what you see. It is about understanding how motors work. Hondas' SOHC cams actaully has the advantage for boost because of their low overlap design. After tuning many Hondas that has been tuned by other shops also allowed me to draw one conclusion. Most tuners can not tune DOHC correctly, because they don't understand the relationships between ignition timing and intake cam timing... Most DOHC cars would probably have more hp if they didn't have cam gears installed and tuned.
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From: JDMotorsports
Rep Power: 0 we have a d16 in an eg that runs 12.80's consistant with nothing but an intake/skunk 2 mani/cleaned up head/ANR header and full catback eaxauhst (no cat) and a 60 shot. its in a gutted eg and runs on a small set of slicks. other than what i have posted the motor is STOCK. the car sees the street all the time. noone says its impossible, but its not easy. this guy is one of the best drivers i have ever met.
hes currently building a new motor, still sohc, but shooting for high displacement. we wanna put down at least 200 off the bottle, and building the motor for more juice. this car will be in the 11's, i can almost garuntee it.
to think you will hit 11's on a set of azenis is absurd. those are road racing tires, they hook great, if your not putting out too much power. our race car puts down 208 to the wheels untuned and 144 tq, and lights those azenis up like its all good. we also tried a set of nitto 555r and did worse than thte azenis. slicks are a must for a high powered car.
hes currently building a new motor, still sohc, but shooting for high displacement. we wanna put down at least 200 off the bottle, and building the motor for more juice. this car will be in the 11's, i can almost garuntee it.
to think you will hit 11's on a set of azenis is absurd. those are road racing tires, they hook great, if your not putting out too much power. our race car puts down 208 to the wheels untuned and 144 tq, and lights those azenis up like its all good. we also tried a set of nitto 555r and did worse than thte azenis. slicks are a must for a high powered car.
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From: JDMotorsports
Rep Power: 0 cops dont give us much about being gutted here in miami. he still has two front seat, a dash, center console and seat belts. no carpeting, sound deadening, or panels. back seats are worthless to him.
