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its cool.....im not trying to start a fight or anything, im just sick of all the paper racers who think its just "ill slap this in here, add this, and im in the 11's" the reality of it is, 11's are very difficult to reach. to go from 15's to high 12's is the easy part. you can do it real easy and fairly cheap. at dropping the times after high 12's which gets a little more technical.

my prelude is a 5th gen. its got a built bottom end, darton sleeved, je 9:1 cr pistons, eagle rods, full skunk 2 valve train, custom turbo kit. running a T3/T04 right now, but passing it down to my roommate for his Ex. i crashed the car before i was able to get it on the dyno or the track so i pulled the motor to change some stuff i wasnt happy about. the car should hopefully be done by late decmber early january. im only looking for somewhere around 400 - 500 WHP. im looking to keep it SOMEWHAT reliable. the car will be street driven, but not very comfortably. what did you guys have done to your prelude? im curious, havent seen too many big power preludes lately. witht he realease of k series motors and the huge amounts of b series motors available people have began to ditch their H's and move on to easier motors.

 
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its gonna be a "trail and error" deal with this. pushing a car to its limits is tricky business. people have different ideas/theorys on what they think will and will not happen. i believe andy can without a doubt get his car into the 11's but what he breaks (if anything) we will have to wait and see.

 
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its not all about the power, its about tuning. with about 250 horses or a lil more with good gearing (a stock type R set up is nice but wont fit) and a clutch and sticky tires, and a shirt shifter, etc. theres many other details involved in hitting low times. research about it and u will see what i mean.

andyman97, dont worry about what anyone else says because i believe u. i know a guy that goes to the same shop i go to with a green dx coupe (6thgen) with auto tranny and the non vtec single cam built and running high 11's. ull get there bro! good luck!

 
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Dream andy dream. Power to the vic.

Tb, andy is looking into everything for a built motor. Internals and externals. PnP, tb, rods, pistons, etc. He has alcohol injection on the way. He has the plans on paper, just not fully ready for the engine.

 
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Well it was a 2000 prelude, with a built H22. We sleeved it, crower cmoly rods, pistons (cant remember what brand), fully ported and polished head, turbo manifold, intake manifold, & T4, titanium retainers, springs, etc. He also had a direct port system on it. i believe it was a 150 shot.

We did that motor about 2 years ago. The guy was in high school, and drove it there every day. It has been pretty reliable. The kid doesnt street race, and never goes to the track.

 
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All I can say, tb, is laugh when you see the timeslip. I've never fully built a d17 before. Not many, if any, have. Therefore, it is unrealistic to make a judgment either way based off of that. As far as my setup goes....it's going to take some time. I've stated everything that I have planned thus far. I need to decide on an ems and a good wideband system. I don't plan to slap a few things on and I'm not raising compression.

I have a full sfpower setup with alcohol injection and a super 60 compressor. I'm going to be dropping compression substnatially. Saying I'm going to hit 11's is pure speculation to anyone that reads this thread at this point. Beleive what you want, but I really don't care what you, or anyone, for that matter thinks I'll hit. The only people's opinions that I care about are the people in my crew. They are the ones helping me build it and deciding on components.

 
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Andy, have you talked to Dhracing yet?

Just curious.

 
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you see, that changes alot of things. from your original post, i was lead to believe you ere going the all motor route. now that i know you are boosted is a whole nother story. just to let you in on a little tip, drag radials will never hook. i dont care what anyone tells you, once you start producing any amount of torque, the radials can go right out the door.

i know anything is possible, i mean ****, a good friend/customer of mine has an eg with a STOCK single cam, minor bolt ons a set of slicks and a 60 shot runs 12.70's consistant. if you ask me, for a 120 rated horsepower single cam, thats one hell of an achievmant for an internally stock motor. anything is possible. but be prepared to spend plenty of money.

catalyst....700 whp on a t4? how much boost? was this on or off the juice? that seems a little high for a t4. i know plenty of guys running bigger turbos who arent even getting that high. you have the specs on the turbo? he had to have been pushing the limits of that snail and running hella lean. depending on the turbo they reach peak heat efficiency before 24 psi on average.

 
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andy is the ****! dont take **** from nobody and is gonna turn heads, i here ya brugh! i'm saving to build my engine, just the bottom end for now so i can run 11 psi whe i get my turbo safely, but i'm greedy and gonna wanna crank it and shoot my 50 shot of nitrous too. 13's are nice, 12's are better, 11 you can talk ****.

as far as everyone saying you need a gutted hatch or rex to run 11's, bullshit. my boy has a high 11 2nd 96 4 door civic, full interior, and my other boy has a 11 second hatch at low boost, never hit high boost cause no cage and clutch won't handle it. 11.8 at low boost, thats power! and this dude cheesefrog has a 10 second street legal hatch. he was neck and neck with a viper.

also i read on here a while back some dude will build your engine and with the sf kit your guaranteed high 10's low 11's. now andy, HANDLE YOUR BUISNESS AND PIMP THAT ****!

 
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Well whatever man, doesn't matter to me one way or another what you think. And a tip for you, check out my sig, I think it's pretty obvious that I'm boosted, not to mention all of the other posts I've talked about boost, you may want to make sure you know what you're talking about before you try flaming people, especially when you have all of 10 posts.

As far as drag radials, again, I know they will work. Think what you will.

 
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The 700 is with the juice. It is pretty hard to make 600 whp on a T4, let alone 700.

Andy... There is a difference between drag radials and street slicks. The street slicks produce a consistent .2 sec faster 60/ft time on a stock mustang GT. Maybe you were thinking about street slicks instead of drag radials?

 
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look at a supra with a single kit on it...as soon as it starts getting into the powerband it rolls the tires off with ANY radial including a Nitto 555R. slicks is the only answer if you are planning on making it into the 11's. even for being able to make it into mid to low 12's it might be necessary for slicks. go to the track and watch what people run and wat tires they use...getting out of the hole quickly is the key to a fast time and the only way to get out of the hole quickly with a turbo is slicks......PERIOD.

 
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18psi.. with just piston.. you are full of ****.

 
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How about you leave this board, you loser? I run into alot of misinformation and alot of dumbf*cks on this board but you are one of the top on that list. Off yourself, please.

Catalyst, as far as drag radials, I'm talking about the falken azenis that we put on my car when you guys were here....they were your tires, actually. I do know the difference between radials and slicks, lol.

 
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You run into a lot of misinfo? I think you are the one who make them. 18 psi on stock internal on a B18C1... Why don't you get a GSR and find out why you can't past 15 psi with just pistons. I have been builting B series and H series Hondas since 93, never seen a stock honda block past 15 psi for over 3 passes on the strip. Why don't you go back into your ****ing dream world and let me know how your 11 sec civic comes out. When it comes true, let me know, I'll threw a ****ing dream party for you. Seen you talk a lot of ****, and this one is just way over the top. You blew your motor and you are here to talk ****? Go post your info in the integra forum or honda-tech, and see who else will give you a break like the rest of this broad. Wake the **** up.

 
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I have run 18 psi on a stock ZC. It is all about the tuning. When you are making that much power, the reason those engines break is because it detonates. If it just has a small amount of detonation when you are making that much power, thats when everything will let loose. I ran 15 psi daily on my SOHC ZC, and i have the dyno sheets, and term paper to prove it! (the car was a school project)

Andy, i was just making sure.
Mike says to use Mickey Thompson ET Streets.

 
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All I can say to that is....OWN3D!
Talk about honda-tech, you're probably one of the morons over there that gives misinformation as well. You probably got owned over there so you decided to try and pass your bs over on everyone here. Not working here either. As far as talking ****, I don't talk **** until someone else does first.

I think alot of members of this site that have read my posts know I'm not a liar. I've been around for awhile and so has catalyst. Neither of us has yet to give any misinformation. So say what you want to, I know what's up.

 
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You all sound like a bunch of little kids. You gotta problem with people on this site then leave, no one is beggin you to stay.

 
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i hear that tdiddy...you people need to lighten up a little, andyman...you probably need to realize that it takes most people A LOT of heart, tears, and sweat to make a car into an 11 second ride. even if you have the right parts and get the car running. its still a matter of learning how to drive it properly. then you have to deal with breaking things ( which they will quite often ). finally, i would expect it to take much more than a few months to get everything complete. maybe by the end of the summer or 05 spring you will have had enough experience with the car and figured out how to keep the axles from breaking and magicly removing the teeth from gears along with tuning ( which is the most important thing with a car making that quicck of passes on the strip ). and everyone else.......lighten up, let the guy try, at least someone is out there to do something with these damn cars. as for this board, frankly i think it sucks and im sticking to my dsm after hearing how much crap goes into making these things work properly. thanks for the time, lata

 
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Cat, I thought you would know better than to compare a 10:! to a 9.5:1 motor... It would be even worse, instead of JDM ZC you have a European ZC... which is 9.3:! cr... I guess I have misjudged you. Cylinder Head Combustion Chamber Volumes, Bore and Stroke, Piston Dome Volume all effect the amount of thermaldynamic stress they can take. Keeping that in mind, there are many other factors, but rods are always the first to go.

All B Series cars we built were dyno tuned from 11.8:! to 12.1:1 pending on engine's tolerence. No engine were killed by detonation. It isn't about detonation that kills B series at high boost...

Turbo upgrading to a non-turbo vehicle, you must consider how much added "stress" the engine can take from the added power of the turbo. Undoubtedly, you've heard horror stories about retrofitted turbo engines blowing due to the failure of a connecting rod. Let's examine the stresses put on engines during a normal combustion cycle, specifically the connecting rod.

There are two main types of force applied to automotive connecting rods; power load (compressive) and intertial load (tensile, or pulling). Expansion of the burning air/fuel mixture pushes the piston down, and in turn the connecting rod acts as a pillar, pushing the crankshaft to turn up-and-down power into round-and-round power.

It may seem that connecting rods are miraculous devices, being that at peak cylinder pressure, even the weakest running engines can put over 6,000 lbs of compressive force over a single connecting rod on the power stroke! But when we look at the forces exerted on the connecting rod as it yanks the piston away from top dead center, that is when real eye-opening forces may be observed. Doubling the engine RPM quadruples intertial loads on the connecting rods.

Conversely, doubling engine output does not double the compressive force on the connecting rod. Engine output is a function of the average cylinder pressure during the piston's travel down the cylinder bore, with peak pressure being a relatively small part of the equation. With double the air/fuel mixture in the combustion chamber, peak cylinder pressures are increased only about 20 percent. Overall, compressive loads on connecting rods are greater than tensile loads, but it is a lot easier to double a tensile load than it is to double a compressive load. Additionally, compressive loads do not fatigue metal as tensile loads do, since compressive loads squeeze the molecules of metal together in the connecting rod, while tensile loads attempt to pull them apart.

So, "Why", do you ask, "are connecting rods the weak link with an aftermarket turbo set up?" This is because the "stress" a connecting rod endures is the difference between the compressive and tensile forces applied to it. The greater the difference, the greater the likelihood of connecting rod failure. Increasing engine output increases the stress on the connecting rods because higher engine output is attained although the engine is run in the same RPM range it was when there was no turbo. As a general rule, maximum engine output can be increased by approximately 50 percent before compression loads reach a point of connecting rod failure.

So, Andy, why don't you show us your buddy's dyno, since you never lie.

There isn't a need to pass anything to any forums. I am only here to gather some personal experience on the new civic, nothing more. You say you want 11's, but yet, you haven't even seen 12's... By bring up a rediculous GSR numbers to comare to a 7th gen will tell us what? 7th gen haven't got any respect , mainly because it hasn't gotten any good numbers on the track. Why don't you let me know when you hit 12's, then you can talk about 11's.

 
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well spoken i must say

 
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im going to have to agree with your point of view on most everything uve said.....also

1. andy if u dont care what anyone but ur friends think then why bother posting it
2. if everything on here is so mistaking then why when i say ur whatever is blown/done and u say that its has nothing to do with it and then get on again and say im building my blown motor, obviously i wasnt mistakin

there are about a 50/50 percent of people on here that are right,
to better support that argument,
1. all those people who say that u NEED alchy injection, they ARE WRONG, alchy inject is on a WANT basis, bc u dont have to have it all to ne thing

 
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How I get into this? I dont wish to clash knowledge with anyone, because i know what that gets into (remember the TD and maxrev incidents?)

People look at things different ways, have different opinions. Facts are fatcs, i do agree with you there. But there are soo many more variables to how much stress is actually exerted on the rod/piston/etc.

But lets not get into that because in the end, you will think you won, i will think i won, when in fact we both lost because the other people will think we are retarded.

With that said....
Lets see what andy does before any more flaming.

 
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i am not giving info for winning or losing... this info is for people to read and observe as a warning. forum is for info only, being rated on a forum does not change how your car runs nor does it help anyone improve their cars. but yet, this kid comes to tell the tale how he is going to build a 11 sec 7th gen, while he doesn't even have the slightest idea about the process. if any misinfo is not charllenged, many will try it and end in unpleasant results. different motor will yield different results, but within a reasonable range. i am just summing up the numerous number of B18C1 we have built and giving that single observation that B18C1 will not pass 15 psi on stock internals, nothing more.

 
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man, if i was a mod i would send all of you to your rooms, and LOCK this thread. like cat said, everyone has different views on these things, so lets play nicely and sit back and wait and seen when andy rolls out with the 11's

oh, andy and catalyst, i am calling mike tomorrow and ordering my kit

 
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its funny cause its true....

now thats own3d.

the day i see a D17 7thgen in the 11's is the day i swap my motor back to a D17

(bring forth the "at least our cars run" nonsense)

 
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I can't argue with 5 people about different things, I don't have the time. All I can say is that it will happen. Just wait and see.

 
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I seems you forgot to quote that information. No worry... I'll do it for you
http://www.bimmersport.co.nz/forums/...topic=232&st=0

 
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Those words came from Richard Holdener and Wen Peters' "How to Build Honda Horsepower 2: Boost to the Max"

All relative descriptions are for B and H series Honda motors only.

"even the weakest running engines can put over 6,000 lbs of compressive force over a single connecting rod on the power stroke!" is refering to a D series. The weakest BMW engine will put well over 7,000 lbs of compressive at its extending stroke. Power stroke is only a valid term for a 4 stroke engine: intake, compress, power, and exhaust.

"As a general rule, maximum engine output can be increased by approximately 50 percent before compression loads reach a point of connecting rod failure." is only the correct assumption for B and H series motors. BMW inline 6 rods will handle over 100 percent output increase.

You are asking the wrong person to quote. Those boys are reading the wrong books. Using Honda motor to set the BMW motor tolerance guideline is a big mistake. It will only make their BMW slower than they really can be.

 
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I just like to bother everybody into quoting stuff. I have no life. I suck. lol imp: