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Yesterday after I left work and especially after having this conversation in a thread about S2k's I ran into a young guy on fowler last night who had a blue S2K with exhaust and who knows what else... I pass by him and so he gets along side of me while we're rollin and takes off...so I procede to follow him. Coincidentally hes is front of me and his taking the same route that I'm taking (morris bridge rd)...hes rolling about 10mph and then floors it. I floor it too. Keep in mind I have my gf in the car with me and I have 3/4 tank of gas...I stay right on his *** half way through 3rd and then he pulls about 3 lengths...then we turn on davis rd ( two lane rd.) This fool pulls into the oncoming traffic lane and stops and waits...I pause for a moment coming to a stop just behind him....my gf is eggin me on to race him and Im like no, this is too risky...then I think to myself....fvck it...I roll up slow about 5mph till I get right beside him and then we both drop the hammer...he spins a lil, I dont...we're both taking off...his front bumper is at my door and we both hold our positions steady until I hit 4th and a car is coming in the oncoming traffic, hes just about to pull on me anyway so I hit the brakes and let him get over....the idiot slows down again in the oncoming traffic lane after the other car had passed, but this time I didnt stop but I slowed and dropped into 2nd when I got up to him and we both started going at it again, this time he didnt have enough power or room to get by me before we reached the red light at the intersection of davis rd and temple terrace highway, I turn right on the red light and so does he....hes right behind me but once again he didnt have enough power or room to get past me before we reached the next light...during the two times we raced on davis rd. hes hitting the rev limiter before shifting and when we got to the light I could smell his clutch burning and hes sitting there in a cloud of smoke which I believe was coming from his clutch and hes chillin with a cigarette hanging out of his mouth obviosly this guy couldnt drive....my gf rolls down the window and says "nice" and I tell him, I know your car is faster but you cant drive worth a **** man... and he says "I'm drunk as fvck!" and I laugh to myself..you dont look drunk, just stupid and you almost got your *** handed to you on the street by a 1.8T...moral of the story here proves that I think the S2K is great for twisties where it can really ride out like it was intended for, but just doesnt have the power low end which is good for inner city driving.

 
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you raced a crappy driver. dont blame the car for the driver. your thread title even said it was a crappy driver, but then you say the opposite here with your post.

if you really think the S2k doesn't have the "low end power needed for inner city driving" find someone that can drive one, and you'll be nothing more than a distant memory in their rearview mirror. the only speed where the S2000 would be in its "weak" low end power is before about 15-20mph. and even then its no slouch. why? gearing.

 
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I knew this one would get you all wound up... The car didnt even seem as fast as shouldve...even though the guy was hitting rev limiter before shifting through each gear...he couldnt even pull me at all until I was shifting into 4th and that was from almost a dead stop...so be mad because that guy provided a bad example of what a S2K should be able to do...thats your problem not mine...

 
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lol the only thing i didn't like was your comment at the end. it simply made it sound like the driver wouldn't have mattered, when it obviously did.

 
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obviously the driver was part of the reason, but I dont think it was the entire reason... 1.8T makes more torque at 1950 rpm than an S2K does at over 6,000rpm where it peaks at....

 
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Hahahaha.

Have you been to the track yet thiscrackerntam?

 
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not yet, but maybe sometime later down the rd after I get my chip...

 
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everyone should also continue to keep in mind I had an extra person in the car and 3/4 tank of gas and this idiot still couldnt pull on me until 4th gear...thats pretty sad if you ask me...

 
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so? if the VW has all this mad torque, then why, in stock form, does it lose to an S2000 by about 2 seconds in the 1/4 mile? look at the 99-04 mustang GT. that car makes twice the torque of the S2k, yet they are even in the 1/4 mile. in fact they have nearly identical 0-60, and the GT makes its 302lb/ft far sooner than the S2k reaches its peak torque.

there is WAY more to a car's acceleration than what you're looking at. and until you see the big picture, you won't understand why that one little figure doesn't matter, and that properly driven the S2000 will pull on a stock GTi, even when starting from a 10mph roll.

 
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vw doesnt lose by 2 seconds...good driver in stock vw GTI 1.8T= 14.8-14.9 good driver in stock S2K= 13.8-13.9 I'm not the best at math but I would say thats a difference of about 1 second not 2.... and torque to weight ratio does mean something in terms of gearing/acceleration/power bands/ or else those torque numbers would never be mentioned. Are saying torque doesnt matter at all?

 
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GTi gear ratio. 1st gear, final drive gear: 3.30 * 3.09 = 10.1

S2000 gear ratio. 1st gear, final drive gear, reduction gear: 3.133 * 4.10 * 1.16 = 14.9


see how much more the S2k's gearing multiplies the torque it does make? at 1950rpm, your GTi makes 173 lb/ft. to the wheels its about 150lb/ft. at 1950rpm you are going 15mph. At that same speed, the S2000 is at 2400rpm. at that point it is making about 100lb/ft to the wheels.

so using those numbers.

GTI = 150 * 10.1 = 1515

S2000 = 100 * 14.9 = 1490


well look at that! the GTi has BARELY an advantage for this shortlived moment. and even then, this tiny 'advantage' could easily be hindered by the extra 130lbs. the GTi weighs over the S2000!

by the time you even get to 20mph (a mere 5mph later), the S2000 is now at 4000rpm making 120lb/ft to the wheels, while the GTi is now making LESS since it peaked at 1950rpm.

S2000 = 120 * 14.9 = 1788. 1788 > 1490.


so no, sorry, even with your GTi making the torque it does as early as it does, you won't beat or even really pull on a PROPERLY DRIVEN stock S2000 with it's "weak down low" torque.


my point here is to state that the S2000 "isn't all that" down low is miseducated. you ran a poor driver, which you even admit. however your statement that even a good driver would suffer to your GTi's "low end torque" is incorrect.

 
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sorry that was a typo. i was reading the time for the wrong model. my bad.

and no, i'm not saying torque doesn't matter at all, but read the calculations above. you dont have the advantage you think you do.

 
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I never said a good driver in an S2K would suffer to my GTI's low end torque...but obviously its enough to stay ahead of an S2K with a crappy driver I would say...I didnt say I had an advantage over the S2K either, I said my car's torque is good for inner city driving. Let me ask you this, when you were stock did your car feel more powerful at higher speeds or in the lower speeds?

btw my GTI is close to being stock but not completely...there are two things listed in my sig which have both made a noticable difference.

 
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you said:
so i refuted your point by showing that the peak torque the GTi makes at 1950rpm is not enough to beat an S2000. therefore, the entire reason you did what you did was because of driver. nothing else.
obviously. you could stay ahead of xxxx car that's faster than you with a crappy driver.
so is the S2000's. notice how it makes pretty much just as much power as you in that "low" 10-15mph range? and heck, it's even BETTER than your car for "inner city driving" at 20mph as I already just showed you above.
this is the kind of logic that perpetuates the myth. the answer is its more powerful in the higher RPM range (note this doesn't mean only higher speeds). however, it's not a slouch down low either, as I already explained above.
cool, now up the boost, chip it (GIAC), exhaust, downpipe, and you'll be finding yourself pretty close to even with an S2000 from a roll.


your entire post was fine, but then at the end you had to make this comment which only perpetuates one of the MYTHS surrounding the S2000. I'm just trying to help educate people and correct the myth.

 
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s2k is better than a gti anyday thats my opinion. It looks better its faster and with mods has a lot of potential

 
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the problem with S2000man01 is that he swears up and down he's always right about every little detail in his own mind, tries to twist people's words around, and never gives up till he has the last word in. Thats the way he's always been and thats the way he will always be so having said that I'm not going to try to argue my point any further because I think the other members reading this already understand what I'm trying to say.



And my response to this: is this....thats your opinion....just like a$$holes, everyone has one and in my opinion I think theres a lot of GTI's out there that look very sweet and are very fast and that would take your civic in a heart beat so I wouldnt talk so much smack...I know my car isnt the fastest around and I even told that crappy driver that I knew his car was faster but he just simply cant drive worth a damn....go ahead and try to bring down my thread if you want to....As far as I'm concerned you guys ought to be giving me a lil credit because not only did I give this guy a good run but also because you know damn well I've got more than enough power to take care of any wanna be's...

 
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^^^ I know a lot of s2k that could beat you me i know gti that could beat you and me, Don't bring my civic into this i never said My Civic was better than a gti or better. Gti is a sick car but like i said MY opinion is that s2k is better. Good kill sorry for not giving you credit that you deserve but you guys went from a race to which car is better. So good kill and don't put my civic down if it has nothing to do with this thread.

 
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sorry about that, maybe I overreacted a lil due to fustration.

 
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^^^^^ yeah i think you did dude but no hard feelings i could understand where you come from.

 
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he doesnt own anyone, he just never shuts up

 
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I tried to be nice. I tried to explain my point politely because of something you said that I disagreed with. I tried to provide proof and evidence of what I was talking about, to dispel a common "myth" about the S2000. I provided logical and solid facts, and somehow you claim this is "never shutting up" "always thinking he's right" and "has to get the last word in".

You, however, decided not to offer me the same courtesy. Instead you went on a tirade of personal attacks. Rather than try to prove me wrong, you simply b*tched about how I act like I'm never wrong, and I dont own anyone I just dont shut up and whatever. I could ban you right now, and have absolutely no second thoughts about it. But, I believe in giving people a fair chance and a benefit of the doubt. I don't know what your problem is, or where the hell this line of bullsh*t came from, but I better not see it again.

This thread is done.