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Just a note that older civics had double wishbone all around which is considered to be better for handling, not sure which is better for drag racing though, don't think it matters.

 
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sorry bout the mix up It was 3 02' and up si's that I beat and it was a 6th' gen with intake that I stayed even with

 
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The G force on that must be sick!

 
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the rear was multi link with trailing arms in the previous gen models?

 
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Wich one is faster in acceleration... Don't know. Does the older civic handle better... .Thast a bit more abstract... in theory, the Older civic should have an advantage, its lighter, and has a more favorable suspension design. But, Stock EX vs Stock EX... its going to come down to a few things. 1. Driver. and 2. Tire choice (and possibly wheel size). Driver should be obvious... "Old age & treachery shall always defeat youth & enthusiasm..." The driver with the most experiance will most likely win. (this explains why an "old timer" in a Tiberon constantly beats most of the beginers in such cars as RX7's WRX's ect...) In the Tire choice issue... well if car A has a set of Azenis and Car B has a set of Allseasons... My Money is going to be on Car A. If both cars have the same tires.. then WHeel size can come in to play. Which one is wider??? I've seen a 1/2 inch in wheel width be worth as much as a Half Second on course between similarly driven and preped cars... If both are the same then the advantage falls back to the Older civic... now with that in mind, this doesnt mean that the Older civic will beat the new one on a road course or autocross... Though it may be able to put down more G's in a corner. when racing on track you have to take in to account the whole pacage.... So, if the New civic is faster in acceleration then the old one, but the old one handles a bit better.... THat means that in order for the new civic to win It has to be able to make up in the straight a ways what it loses in the corners. and for the Old civic to win, it has to make up in the corners what it loses in the straight a ways.... So once again it comes down to driver. So, Track performance wise, your probably looking at two very comperalbe cars.

(Dont you hate it when some one answers a question with out answering the question??? )

 
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Yes, the 7th and 6th gen civics (just about all the civics) share similar rear suspension designs... However, the 7th gen has a more user friendly way to adjust Toe settings.

 
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7thgen faster then 6thgen?

same thign as ask "could Oprah outrun Roseanne"

 
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Here are two sources that say the civic was doublewish bone on all four corners untill 2001.

http://www.epinions.com/auto-review-...3909F4C9-prod2

http://www.welovehondas.com/civic.htm

I can find plenty more too. For once I have to disagree with Zzyzx. Honda got rid of doublewish bone in favor of more room. But did make the body more rigid.

 
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ok, so if you stayed even with an 6th gen Si with intake, and you were in a 7th gen Si, I assume your 7th gen Si is modded?

 
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2001 + rear suspension assembly


2000 Rear suspension assembly..


See much of a difference?

Me nither.


Here's an 89 SI's rear suspension...



You have to go all the way back to 87 to find a rear suspension thats signifiganly different then the current gen civics..... and that whas when they were using the ol' Tortion beam suspension...

 
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Frankily, I really don't know where the double wishbone hooks up to the rear arm, but I'm going to with the sources above. If I remember right double wishbone give for a dynamic alignment so the tire patch is always on the ground. So the double wishbone the small piece sticking out from behind the large arm on the lowwer right of the older civic picture, maybe? It's is way to ahrd for me to argue a 2D picture. Keep in mind though that double wishbone is only part of the suspension, most of it is held together by a link type system. Check the book for an Accord, all Accords, including the ones made today, have double wish bone, I bet they look similiar to the older civc picture. If you really don't believe me, go ask the dealer.

Here is a motortrend article that states that the 1996-2000 civic's have double wish bone (motor trend is bit more reputable than the other two I listed).

http://motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0109_civic/

 
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Zzyzx you have the civic bible or something?

 
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Yep he agrees with you, he's talking about the rear cause I asked if the rear on the previous was multi-link with trailing arms.

 
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No, I've just learned a whole crap load about civic suspensions in the last year... Ranging from an 87 Si (Tortion beam) an 89 Si to the 7th gen....


Jrfish007, I'm not disputing that the older civics didnt have double wish bone rear suspensions... what I am trying to get at is that a "Double wishbone" Suspension describes Many Variations of suspensions... From a True Double wishbone, To a multi Link double wish bone which the civics have had, and whats on the Accord.... So you see, The older civics have double wishbone suspensions, that are of a very similar design to the current moddels Multi Link double wishbone type suspension.

 
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Hye now, that was top of line back then... lol

But really, are you saying that No civic ever had double wishbone?

Never mind about that question, you posted after I tried to, or something like that, Ididn't see your post till after mine.

 
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SO what was the great use of the double wishbone suspension then?

What true double wishbone then?

 
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Well, The front suspension on the older civics is almost a "true double wishbone" but it's still a Multi Link double wishbone.. marketing and people just call it a double wishbone because its easier. and it effectively does the exact same thing. (some times better). the only place you'll find a "true" Double wishbone suspenison would be on Formula cars and specialty cars...

See, This is the rear suspension out of the Accord.. and you can see that although Honda says its a "Double wishbone" its acutally a Multi link Double wishbone.


This is the suspension out of an Elise... As you can see its made up of Two A Shaped Control arms... Hence its a "True" double wish bone suspension


Compair that to the "Double wishbone" suspension found on the front of the civic (Pre 01) and you'll notice that there is acutally only one A shaped Control arm (The upper one) the lower one is acutally a multi link.


Any way... all I'm saying is that all of the civics since the late 80's have all shared similar rear suspensions and the 7th gen is no exception.

 
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So aren't civic's (pre 2001) more like a single wishbone? Looks to me they are actually a wishbone suspension with a multilink system. Does this do the same thing as a double wishbone where it adjust it's self to keep the entire tire on the ground during cornering? Do the 7th gen do this?

 
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No, pre-2001 Civics are modeled after a double wishbone suspension in the front. Theyre actually not true wishbones or a-arms but similiar enough in design that most people call it a double wishbone since it works roughly the same. Basically any suspension that uses two a-arms or wishbones are labled double wishbone for simplicity purposes.

We use Mcpherson struts in front, which has its advantages and disadvantages. Google Mcpherson struts and you can read about them all day. Keep in mind that alot of true sport car makers use Mcpherson struts.

 
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McPherson struts.... they're spring dampers, off the top of my head:
F=ma
Spring travel distance
Fs=-k(L+u)
damping
Fd=-yu'

Blahhhh... that's mechanical Engineering, anyway I'm sure I know more about springs and damping than most people on here, or at least I have a book that tells me all about it about 2 feet from me. I am very aware that car such as the EVO 8 and Porsche use McPherson struts.

My question is, double wishbone (from what I understand in my little world) actually adjusts the alignment as you corner and change the load on the car to keep the a full contact patch of your tire on the pavement, how does this system on the older civic's work for the rear end? Is it better than true double wishbone? Why? And how does the current civic compinsate for not having this in the front?

 
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no mods a good driver more then makes up for a mod here or there

 
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The main advantage double wishbone (or its dirivitives) have over a strut type suepsnion is simply with Camber Gain... (The bane of Street tuners, the Joy of actual race drivers...)

See, as a double wishbone suspension compresses, it increases negitive camber. This is a great thing for racing, because it means when ever the car turns, the side of the suspension that compresses gets extra negitive camber giving you better traction. This in turn allows you to run Less Static negitive camber overall. were as a Strut type suspension gains Very little if any negitive camber as it compresses, which forces you to run More static negitive camber to compinsate, wich can bite in to your acceleration and Braking Traction. (The tires end up angled while driving in straight lines, giving you a smaller contact patch for braking and acceleration).

 
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but it takes a bad driver for a car that is only capable of 15.7 stock to beat a car that can run 15.3 stock.

you can run your best times all day long in your stock 7th gen Si, you won't beat a 6th gen Si unless it has a less than average driver.

 
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6th gen EX coupe curb weight 2,513
7th gen EX coupe curb weight 2 533

Difference 20 pounds

Final Drive ratio 6th gen EX coupe 4.25
Final Drive ratio 7th gen EX coupe ????

Numbers for 6th gen EX coupe gathered directly from
Honda

 
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Yes, good info, but remember, mine '94 was a 5th gen I'm really doubtful they have info in the certified section on those.

 
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7thgen > 6thgen

 
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7th gen is 4.4x if I recall correctly.

 
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I couldn't info on the fifth gen. I foudn a curb weight on the coupe but I'm guessing the coupe is much heavier than the hatch?

for 6th gen vs 7th gen. It seems like there pretty evently matched. The sixth gen has the double wishbone front, the 7th gen is more rigid.

 
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Yeah, the 6th gen is double wishbone and 7thgen is more rigid... I guess that's about even up?

I found some of the curb wieghts for 5th gen, but nothing for gearing.

'94 Civic DX coupe = 2231 lb
'94 Civic DX hatch = 2105 lb

 
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Are those final drive ratios for Manual or auto's though? 4.4 seems right, but I forgot if it was for auto or manual...