BumpinCivic2k1

Well, Since i screwed up my tie rod the other day during installation, I didn't get a chance to discover the fitment issues everyone is talking about. Well I have a couple of pics to show and to compare with everybody's situations (although it is starting to sound like we are all in the same situation).
I am going to model this with my brand new tie rod end:

Now, for the fitment:

Now, the size of the hole:

Well, this is a perfect example of "you get what you pay for". At least Hayame decided to make welds for the brake and ABS lines.

matrix311

Exactly man! how ghey is that? I F#cked up both my tie rod ends with these coilovers
Thanks for putting pics up, i didn't even think about doing that. I'll have to take some pics of mine tonight when i get home. I messed up both my tie rod ends and we had a heck of a time getting those suckers off. Now today i just spent $100.00 for two new ends from honda cuz i can't find aftermarket local from anywhere. But this is a design flaw and how is it to be resolved? You think we'll have to send them back or wait for Hayame send us some new fronts that are fixed? ME and slammedblue have the same issues, what yr is your civic? Mine is an '04 and SlammedBlue is an '02. So far we know 02 and 04 dont work, you got a 01 or 03?

matrix311

ah my bad, ylooks like u got a 2k1 from ur name.. duh... so now we know these dont work with '01, '02, '04

518

The sad thing about it, if Hayame tried to fix this issue, what else could go wrong on their next shipment?

"we get what we paid for" enough said

what scares me the structural integrity of the arm after drilling to make the hole bigger...

BumpinCivic2k1

I have a 2001 civic, and i busted my tie rod by using a pickle fork Yeah i paid $100 bucks today for 2 new ends (extra just in case)
Yeah exactly, I'm not too sure about doing this yet...i'm just waiting on what is going to happen to resolve the problem before I do it.

518

SPW said that they were back-ordered so they decided to make the hole 3/8"??? It would only take them a couple of seconds to change the drill bit and make the hole bigger.

a .00001mm is a big difference in specs, I cant believe Hayame took this for granted. Im thinking, whoever provided the specs to Hayame in Japan made the wrong assumption. Im thinking some distributor in the US gave Hayame the specs. Its not that Hayame didnt wanna spend an extra minute changing the drill bit, it was the specs that was given onto them.

someone needs to be responsible to this if the arm broke loose due to drilling. And I hope when the hole cracks, no one gets fatally injured.

BumpinCivic2k1

EXACTLY what i was thinking...that explanation doesn't make sense at all.

518

someone in the US of A provided Hayame Japan a wrong spec, more of a...speculation de assumption of specs. Now, since Hayame received a wrong spec and obviously not their fault, Hayame wouldnt take the coilovers back. They would loose money if they do. They would rather see the one who provided them with wrong spec eat the cost. At its worst, have the consumers eat the cost.

all of which, are my circumstantial assumptions

I need to quit watching CSI

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

Isnt the tie rod bolt that goes into the steering arm is a tapered end? It kinda look like this: \ /

How are you going to drill that correctly? Unless you have some special drill bit that can make tapered holes your not going to get that tie rod seated correctly. Someone obviously over at Hayame isnt doing the right Quality Assurance testing and letting these get by. Maybe Hayame figured that it woldnt be a big deal and that the end user will just have to do a little drilling.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

518

The version 2 is not even tapered like that. It's a straight hole.

SlammedBlueEM2

iTrader: (2)

They said to me that you have to drill. I highly doubt it will break, but if it does that is SPW/Hayame's ***.

SlammedBlueEM2

iTrader: (2)

When I finished the install after drilling, the bolt went all the way through. It's most likely not gonna come out perfect because the nut that goes around it is so far up, the cotter pin hole is sooo far at the bottom.

I'm seriously considering going back to stock suspension or getting another set of Ground Controls just so my car can have something worthwhile to sit on.

blouisgod

iTrader: (14)

You get what you pay for. You said it best bro.

518

I just hope I can take their words to the bank.

matrix311

What was the size of the hole? Even if I drill it 3/8 it's still not fitting in there. What size is it you have to drill this hole to make it fit? 3/8 seems to small, does it have to be drilled another size? even with 1/2 inch will it fit? i'm not sure what i'm doing wrong, but i'll take pics and post it. maybe you guys can answer my question.

matrix311

Ok so I went and took off my front coilover and took some pics so you can see what is wrong with my setup and what i can do if anything to get it going or are these to be sent back due to flaw design? Here are some pictures.

In the 1st pic this is the hole I drilled out, it's kinda oblonged cuz i didn't have a big enough drill bit to fit in there, will this cause a problem with it not being perfectly round or should i is that fine? I have no clue, that why i'm asking. Will it damage the tierod bar below the boot area?



Next - this is as far down as the tie rod bar will fit into the hole!! What is up with that? The hole is larger than 3/8 and that's all the farther it will go down. How did the rest of you get it to go down all the way?



Next this is a picture of the hole and me holding a 3/8" drill bit in there to compare the sizes. This makes no sense at all, but i read in prior posts that the issue was fixed by drilling a 3/8" hole? Is that incorrect? should it be a 1/2" or 5/8"? or should it be a metrix mm size? check it out.



Lastly this is as far as i can get that tie rod nut to screw on. As you can see there is maybe 1mm of threading on the bottom. What did everyone else do to get it to go on?



So those are my problems, easier when you have pics. What do you guys think? Like i said will that hole cause issues with the tie rod bar not being perfectly round? If so i'll probably take it to a machine shop to get it rounded out properly. Right now it's slightly oblonged. But any help would be greatly appreciated with any of you who may have these and experienced the install.

-Eric

BumpinCivic2k1

Yeah that 3/8 drill bit is definitely too small to enlarge the hole. In the other thread, slammedblue said he actually used a 3/4 drill bit to enlarge the hole. I'm probably going to try this tonight if I find the time to.

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

How about using a dremel with a carbide cutter to enlarge the hole? If you have steady hands, you can even taper the hole....

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

Do you have the original strut still? If so you can measure the hole on them then you'll know what size bit to buy. I know one thing, your gonna want to make sure that you get the tie rod bolt seated properly. The tie rod bolt takes a good amount of stress when you go over bumps and such. If it breaks your gonna have hard time controlling your car. Make sure that you get the cotter pin installed also, as its there to keep the bolt from completely coming off in case something were to go wrong.

Hayame/SPW

Regarding Part Numbers: HAY10.71.17 & HAY10.71.04

The new version of Hayame coilovers for 01-up Civic and 02-up RSX received a slight design improvement, which may lead to some confusion during installation.

In order to improve the alignment and positioning of the tie-rod in relation to the coilover, we redesigned the coilover arm to accept the tie-rod on the under side rather than the top of the arm. In other words, the tie-rod should be rotated 180 degrees, and inserted through the bottom of the coilover arm. Installed this way, the taper will properly accept the tie-rod and there is no need to enlarge the hole.

We will be posting more complete installation instructions along with photographs and/or illustrations on our website (hayameperformance.com) in the near future.

We apologize for any confusion this may have caused. For any questions concerning this matter, please find our contact information at hayameperformance.com

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

So....um....will the new bottom parts still be sent?

UrbanImport

iTrader: (7)

There is no need for a replacement part. Please refer to the below thread for any further concerns:

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=159437

matrix311

??

I was told from another board member that spoke with SPW direct and he was told to drill the hole out, there for getting rid of the taper that is in the hole. So I did what I was suppsosed to do, and now there is no replacements being sent out? What happens to the people that already drilled the holes and was told to from SPW direct?

taz757

iTrader: (2)

Um, I hate to say it, but looking at these pictures, how is the tie rod end supposed to fit from underneath? It looks like it's a straight hole instead of tapered? How will this affect everything and how safe is it to have the tie rod come in from the underside? Just curious because I'm seriously thinking of getting a set of these and I don't want anything thrashed because of a "design change".

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

I checked mine last night - the hole IS tapered. Tapered the wrong way, but at least it's tapered.

taz757

iTrader: (2)

Well then, this would explain why the tie rods go in the wrong way too.

518

Im not sure if its the 'wrong way,' I think they go the 'different way.' but then again, how can we trust hayame if they already messed up the first time for sending the wrong springs?!

If anything happens after installing it the 'hayame way,' hayame will be liable for any damages done to the suspension or the car. I suggest that you print out what hayame has posted just in case any court day arises.

For the people who was told to drill, they "should" get a replacement for the arm. no questions asked, period.

taz757, it is tapered from the under-side. At least mine came in like that.

Makes me wonder if Noah from SPW was just making up the excuses he earlier told us. Did he really drill his coilover arm to fit? drilling the arm, yeah sure.

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

The arm looks and feels beefy enough to handle a little hole expansion with a drill, but definitely if someone was told to drill BY HAYAME, following this most recent statement, that part needs to be replaced. I spoke to Noah last night, he seemed like a straight-up guy. But when I first called, the guy who answered the phone had no clue about the issue. Well, here goes nothing...I re-set my appointment for next week.

taz757

iTrader: (2)

Can you get a picture of the underside of the upper control arm for us? I'd like to take a look at it.

TeLLy

iTrader: (23)

If no one else does, i'll try to take a pic tonite, as soon as the paint fumes wear off.....I'm dizzy....