ASIANPRIDE

Well I have Koni Yellows and GC Coilovers....

I purchased this setup because it snows where I live so it's nice to raise my car up so it's not a snow plow during the winter....

I have found out a few FACT's about my koni's....

When I have my GC's raised so that my car is around stock height my rear bottom out like crazy.....and has mad bounce even when the koni's are set 3/4 stiffness......
BUT
When my car is droped to about 1 finger gap in the back...there is no bounce and it never bottoms out on the same bumps I go over when the car is raised to stock height....\

The fronts never have any problems....

The rears are constructed with a weak o-ring holding the perch in place....It has broken on me once causing my perch to bend and end up damaged....

On the softest setting Koni's tend to be bouncy and if the perch is on the bottom notch....if u drive over a large bump there is so much free moving area for the coilover to move around vertically that the Coilover sleeve can end up bending at the bottom from the impact of the strut recompressing on landing.....

It's best to put your rears' o-ring at the top notch if u use GC coilovers...

If u lower your car with about 1 finger gap all the way around and set ur Koni's to about 1/2-3/4 stiffness the ride will impove greatly.....

The little "***" Koni gives u to adjust the Koni's doesn't work worth ****...because it plastic and ends up getting damaged because the Koni's take more force than the plastic can withstand to adjust the stiffness of the Koni Yellow....

Installing the front yellows was a pain....

Rears is very easy to install....

Koni paint ends up cracking and the strut body starts to rust.....

It is possible to blow a koni strut...which I have somewhat done...due to the fact my car was raised to stock height and allowed less spring compressing stiffness on the GC coilovers...resulting on my vechical bottoming out.....in the rear.....




SO...what other facts do u all have about Koni Yellows....and GC Coilover setup???

Roy

Steering is less responsive due to the fact that it's an insert, with a bolt holding it in place. Therefore you have resistance between the insert rotating inside the strut housing. Best to weld it in and revalve/service the koni. But that's $$.

ASIANPRIDE

There must be more info than this...

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

The steering shouldnt be affected at all. The tie rods are connected to the strut steering arms knuckle directly. It has nothing to do with the insert. You could take the bolt out completely from the insert ans steering responsivness would remain the same. If anything with a properly installed insert, the steering response is increased due to it being firmer.

As far as facts, heres one. The rear perch has been designed with a grooved lip to hold the circlip in place and to keep it from spreading apart.

Roy

wrong bud, the bold for the insert and housing is very uneffective in preventing rotational forces. Also, with the piston rod being bolted down, this would also be another factor for the housing to rotate around the insert. Engineering bro.

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

Nah your wrong, sorry. Even if the bolt completely fell out, steering response would be uneffected.

Koni has been doing inserts for like 20 years, I think they know what theyre doing.

Again if the insert is installed correctly with the proper torque on the bolt(55 ft lbs I believe) the insert will not rotate inside the housing, it'll spin first. Not only that, the top of insert is a tight fit and will not rotate easily either. You ever try to remove an insert? It doesnt come out very easy, in fact you have to bang it out with a hammer or press.

The insert is designed to spin around the piston rod just like stock or any other Mcpherson strut design, so its not any worse then stock. In fact its probably better.

Also, the last thing you want to do is weld it in the housing. If you weld it in you risk ruining the seals and oil inside the insert. Also some are gas charged and under pressure which you dont wanna mess around with. If you meant to disassemble the insert, weld it to the housing the have it revalved then yes I agree, this would be the best way to make sure it'll never rotate. But for most people this isnt a realistic choice and not needed if installed right.

When I installed my Konis, the steering response increased, not decreased.

Roy

There, is a difference of opinnion here. Using stress analysis... physics shows that one solid body, yeilds less friction/stress. Koni is a great company, however, an insert is an inferior design. Only reason they do the insert, is because honda makes adjustments to their mcphearson strut design almost annually. You have internal movement no matter what with this design. Also, I do believe that under driving conditions, forces netted are far greater than what your body can produce.

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

I agree, one solid body is less prone to twist. But who cares? The insert will spin around the piston shaft like its designed to before twisting inside the housing. The insert welded or not to the housing wont make any difference in steering response.

The reason Koni makes an insert is because the Honda strut(along with a whole bunch of other car makers) are a sealed design. On some Mcpherson struts when they wore out, you could unbolt the cartridge and replace it with another. On a sealed design you cant, so Koni offers an insert as a performance option.

dandyEM2

the bolt is not the only thing that holds the insert to the strut housing. there are metal bumps around the insert that gets pounded into the housing and pretty much keeps it locked in. it was a pain in the butt to do, but it looks effective.

flotsamm

iTrader: (1)

I emailed Gordon over at Koni, here's is response:


Flotsamm,

Steering responsiveness has more to deal with the valving than it does with it being an insert. The insert itself does not rotate inside the housing at all. The piston rod does spin inside the insert though when the wheel is turned. However, there are bushings that were designed to take this kind of loading in the guide (near the top of the insert) and around the piston itself.

Once the bolt is in place, the housing with the insert correctly installed basically acts as a single unit that is no different than the factory one.

Roy is correct in that something's gotta rotate there but he's looking at the wrong part. Even with the factory strut setup, the piston rod (chrome shaft) is rotating inside the housing.

Also, in checking Asianpride's first message of the thread, there are some things that should be clarified.

The "car at one finger gap vs. stock" ride quality difference is really more affected by the bumpstop contacting than the suspension bottoming. When the GC setup is installed, they usually have you cut the bumpstop in half. At a one finger gap, which is sort of a reference for me but not by any means a useful one; he's likely VERY close if not resting on the bumpstop. When the car is back up at the stock ride height, there is more travel before he hits the bumpstop and when he does, the transition is much bigger than it ever was with the factory. The factory bumpstop was conical at the end to slowly and progressive stop the suspension travel but this section was removed when the bumpstop was cut down.

The full soft setting on the shocks is really just too soft for a ccoilover setup. That's why it feels bouncy.

"if u drive over a large bump there is so much free moving area for the coilover to move around vertically that the Coilover sleeve can end up bending at the bottom from the impact of the strut recompressing on landing....."

No. While it is true that the spring will likely fall out of its perch when the car is jacked up, it doesn't have enough time to do this on the street and therefore there wouldn't any vertical movement in the sleeve at all. The sleeve always stays loaded from the spring pressing against it. Without seeing some pictures or having a more detailed description though, I can't offer any suggestions of what is happening.

Also, I would bet that the **** got stripped when he tried to adjust the rear shocks. The reach is really bad back there.

As for welding the insert in place, the bottom threaded piece is about the "best" place to weld on the insert since it is a fairly good chunk of steel and is further away from the housing itself. You still risk destroying the seals, coking the oil, etc. but it is less than welding anywhere else on the insert. Either way, it is not recommended and was not designed to do this.

Thanks for writing.

Gordon

slystad810

Good info. I think I'm going to order a set to use with my Goldlines. I know Tornactive has them for $530 shipped. Anyplace have them lower than that?

slystad810

BTW somebody got...