Alfie17

Hello all,

I have been using and reading this forum since i got my 2005 civic LX se 5spd about 7 years ago, I bought it with ~70k miles and now it has ~160k, stock everything no mods.

Back story of the issue:

Last year i did a timing belt (Gates), and tensioner (Honda) and everything went smooth. Fast forward to 1 week ago. The car died on my way home from work, stalled when i came to a stop in mid boston traffic! it was a clean stall, i didn't feel anything until i tried to go, car would crank but not start so i got it to start by pressing the gas pedal but would stall as soon as i released it, so i got it towed home. No CEL

Once home i unplugged the crank sensor and the car started up but idle roughly so i shut it down checked the timing marks and it was off by about 1 tooth. I removed the upper timing belt cover to see that the rubber seal of the lower timing belt cover had come loose and i figured thats what cause my issue. I also had a lot of oil around my crank sensor. I replace everything again belt (gates), tensioner, cranksensor, oil pump o-ring and seal, oil pan gasket, cam seal, and valve cover gasket (everything HONDA including sensor), and i got a new alternator under warranty from autozone, and i put a new battery (old one was dated 2011).

after about 2 days of work, i go to crank the motor and it started but idle rough, i let it sit for 10 mins hoping the relearn would fix it but nothing. I shut it down and tried to start it again, but it would just crank... i had to step on the gas to started. I rechecked the timing marks and they were good. I undid everything and rechecked my work and everything was good, i clean the connectors to both sensors and replaced the CAM sensor and still cranks but no start.

THIS IS THE WEIRD PART:

I decided to check fuel pressure (i could hear the pump priming) i disconnected the line by the firewall and fuel came out, i plugged my pressure gauge and it read 45psi. so i plugged the line back in, tried starting it again and VIOLA it started, idle smoothly (~600 RPM), turn it on and off a couple of times no issues. Took it for a test drive, stalled at my first stop, turned it on, and didnt stall again. Next day i drive it down the highway and everything was perfect for about 2 days, yesterday when i tried to start it, it took like 4 seconds to crank (normally takes 1) but it started and didnt stall at all on my way home. Now its starting fine again.

Im nervous to drive the car since I feel like i haven't really fixed the issue... can anyone point me in the right direction? I dont want to get stranded somewhere again. Can this be a rare fuel pump issue?

things i have done to the car recently:

-New exhaust manifold from ebay because it was cracked (3 months ago)
-New valve seals (3 months ago)
-Clean throttle body, EGR valve, IACV all with new honda gaskets (1 month ago)
-New Android auto headunit (2 weeks ago)
Sorry for the long post:
SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!

Slumpertcivic

Alfie17

Fuel trim levels indicate is running a little rich, around -5 for both short term and long term. Alternator putting 14.3v at idle. How long does the relearn procedure take? Could it be running rich because it's still "learning"

Slumpertcivic

ezone

You need to check things while the problem is acting up.
Flooring the gas pedal to get it started is a clue that it's probably flooding. On your scanner data list, what is the ECT reading during cranking?

If your scanner can make a recording of data while the car won't start that would be pretty handy.
Same goes for fuel pressure.

Alfie17

Ect is the coolant temp correct? I'll check once I get home, the car has been starting right up the last 6 or so starts through our 2 days. Would bad o2 sensors make the car run slightly rich without giving a CEL?

Alfie17

Also, I have tried the idle relearn and it seems to idle fine. I know in some car you have to do a hard "reset" after u change something like a cat something like :
Disconnect battery, let car sit for 10 mins or so.
touch positive and ground together to completely drain the the car of power. And it'll completely wipe all the memory off the computer... is that necessary in these cars? Or is disconnecting the ground cable off battery enough?

ezone

Yes
I wouldn't be worrying about -5% yet, the PCM has fuel control.
+/- 10% fuel control is within the acceptable range.

You could disconnect the O2 sensors (Yes that would set fault codes) to force the PCM to stop making fuel trim adjustments.
Your (random stalling?) problem seems to have nothing to do with idle learning IMO

Alfie17

I got some of the live data and nothing seems out of the ordinary... the car has been running perfect the last 2 days, started right up everytime and did not stall at all... idk why it stalled once after the new timing belt but it all seems to well now, maybe the new crank sensor needed some time to adjust? Is that the reason why they say "never disconnect this sensor" when doing the timing belt? Also, what the ECT should be reading at idle? The ECT did fluctuate from 190F to about 200F and then back down to 190F
here's some pictures of the live data

Slumpertcivic

ezone

And you probably won't find anything unusual as long as it's running good.

No. It's because disconnecting it just invites connection and terminal problems. Whatever the actual coolant temperature is as it exits the cylinder head.


On a stone cold keyup (sitting overnight, before the sun warms up anything) the ECT and IAT should read within just a couple degrees of each other.



Does your MAP sensor display in volts? Looking for under 0.9v at idle in park/neutral with all electrical loads turned off. Much above that could be a clue about tight valves or sticking egr and the neg trim numbers you have.

Alfie17

I finally got around to checking the following:
ECT and IAT first thing in the morning: 80F (which was the temp outside)

My MAP sensor display only reads in inHg which at idle this morning was 10inHg... i dont really know how to interpret that data. Can i test volts right from the sensor connection with a voltmeter?

ezone

By backprobing, yes.
I just have my scanner setup to display MAP in volts so that's what I'm used to seeing. I can't convert it to the other 5+ scales in my head LOL




You might check out this thread too, sounds a bit similar to yours? (LINK) https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...-starting.html