maverickfhs

We have an issue where 2003 Civic is consuming oil, it all started after a re-manufactured cylinder head was put on because car jumped timing while driving and needed a head. It has been going on for sometime now.

Car has ~156K, no overheating, good mpg and no other issues.

New PCV valve, air filter is clean and no CEL on the cluster either.

Today I pulled all 4 spark plugs and that's how they look like. Are they normal? These are Denso Platinum TT and have ~30-35K on them.

Did a dry compression test on cold engine, tested from left to right(1 2 3 4) numbers are all over the place:

100 200 150 190

Did a wet test by pouring some oil into spark plug hole, from left to right 1 2 3 4

280, 280, 210, 280

For compression testing, pulled ECU fuse and cranked the car 3-4 times, until needle wasn't moving.

Can poor valve adjustment cause just abnormal compression values? I am lost, confused and worried

ezone

No, you've got an oil burner and the white ash buildup is from the oil.

Really need to do it on a hot engine.
Also I like to have a battery charger on during the tests for more consistent cranking RPM.
If this is real, it would probably be setting misfire codes for 1 and possibly 3.

Wait....I think you're backwards. #1 cylinder is on the end where the belts are. #4 is closest to the transmission.
WAY too much oil LOL

Try 10-15 'hits'.

Tight valves can cause compression readings to drop, yes.


Although the mileage is ripe for oil consumption issues, you say it was a sudden onset that coincided with the cylinder head installation, so the quality of the head work and valve stem seals is a huge black question mark. Got warranty?

maverickfhs

Yes, and oil burning is rather excessive, unfortunately this issue has been going on for almost 1-1.5 years, I think but finally getting to it.

So far, there's no CEL and we recently had emissions done and it passed.
You are absolutely right, think poured quite a few drops of oil in it. If we let it sit overnight and then do another test tomorrow morning, would it get any better in terms of oil being too much?
So keep ECU fuse removed and crank 10-15 times for each cylinder and note down readings again?

Valves are on the loose side and do chatter, could that impact these values and oil burning or no have no relationship?


Yeah, unfortunately no warranty because of issues being an old one, I can always check, but highly doubt it.

I still have the old head laying around, it needs quite a few valves since they got damaged, but when I had that one, no oil consumption and burning. We were very religious with oil changes and maintenance too.

Is there any other easy(if?) way to take care of leak without pulling the head?

As usual, thank you EZ.

ezone

Get it to run, drive it through warmup to full operating temperature. It's gonna smoke A LOT until it burns out all that oil you poured in.

Then shut it down and immediately whip the coils and plugs out and do the hot compression test.

I always do it at least that long.

I also mentally note how much the needle climbs on each 'hit' for comparison during the rest of the cylinders tests.

Have you measured and adjusted all of the valve clearances to the looser specs, or are you just guessing because it's noisy?

You can have some adjusted too loose, and others too tight at the same time.
Regardless, valve adjustment errors shouldn't be a major contributing factor in oil consumption IMO.


Assuming it's a stem seal problem and not something entirely different: Only if you can figure out how to replace valve stem seals without removing the head.
I've never tried to do that myself on Hondas.
Since the pics aren't labeled and all...Do all 4 plugs have roughly equal amounts of the ash buildup?

maverickfhs

Thanks so much EZ, will do a another operating temp test tomorrow nad will report readings for it. Hoping they won't be too off, not looking for a re-build. LOL

I hear you, I watched the needle, for certain cylinders it went up real quick even on first crank and for other it stayed low, let's not talk about wet test, that was all CRAZY high. Now I know never pour too much oil
Yes, we adjusted all valve leash when we did this head back together, using feeler gauges and kept on the loose side.
I have never done it, but worth giving a try if it's NOT a big deal?
Actually, I think 1 plug has the least Ash, #1 from left, then #2 and #3 and #4 have similar amount of ash on it.

Let me get some compression readings for a hot engine tomorrow and then see what's needed?

ezone

Measure carefully, and make it equal for all cylinders. Maybe 1 or 2 teaspoonfuls is plenty for each cylinder, but pick one and keep it equal.
Better do a lot of reading on the basics first.

#1 you gotta have a way to keep the valves from dropping into the cylinder while the keepers and spring are off.
(fill cylinder with nylon cord is one way)

#2 you gotta have the tools to compress the spring and R&I the keepers from above, without access to the head/face of the valve.

#2.5 those valve stems are pretty delicate, they can be bent easily.

It used to be a lot easier when every engine only had 2 valves and lots of room around the springs.

maverickfhs

Thanks EZ, I am going to follow directions and will do another compression reading and will report back.

maverickfhs

Weather is not cooperating, drove it around but can't really do a compression test, will update the thread after doing another compression test. Thank you EZ

dsm482

Mine started oil burning after i trashed my valves.. i diagnosed mine to stuck oil rings..
simular scenario, i wonder when those valves got bent maybe somehow from the impact i got them stuck..
i did all those test and cylindr leakage.. am 100 % sure mine is stuck oil rings.

for yours follow ezone says, and maybe do cylinder leakage test, or the old fashion way while at idle take the oil cap and see if any pressure pushes your hand.. this was old fashion test to test piston rings, but not sure if its good for oil rings? ezzone

maverickfhs

Thanks for your input and advice.

Just curious, did you ever fix your oil leaking issue? If so, how did you get to it?

Do you know how much pressure I should be feeling on my hand after removing oil cap?

dsm482

nope i still drive it like that
.. that was old fashion way of testing piston rings... but the oil rings get stuck on these only.. I have 210 compression acros mine .. equal for all...
and its the oil cap on the valve cover not GAS CAP

maverickfhs

Yes, I mean oil cap.

How often do you have to add oil and any idea if you are burning too much, like me(1 quart in 1-2 week)? In my case compression on #1 and #3 was low, going to do an operating temp compression test and see what I get.

ezone

You're gonna feel air movement with the cap off while the engine is running ---no matter what, and it's probably going to spray some oil mist.

Did you redo comp test on a warmed up engine yet?

maverickfhs

Thanks EZ, I have not weather wasn't in my favor today, was raining all day. I am goig to do it sometime this week or coming weekend and update the thread.

Honestly, I am not sure if that oil cap pressure is legit or no? Since, no matter what, there'll always be puff of air/steam, as well as oil coming out of the cap, or no?

ezone

If you unscrew the oil cap of a running engine and leave it sit on the hole it's gonna dance around because

there are always pressure pulses coming from the crankcase because

you have 4 pistons, EACH of those has about 9.4 square inches of area moving up and down at a high rate of speed....so that makes for a lot of air movement inside the engine.


I vote for an inconclusive conclusion.

maverickfhs

Agreed and that's exactly what I was thinking too. I am glad, first time I was making some sense.

Please stay tuned for updated compression numbers, unless there's another quick fix for it?

dsm482

the pressures of worn out piston rings, (meaning compression rings) is different than regular pulses.. it will push your hand away.. there would be a lot more air going into cranckcase than ussual. now on mine i have compression 210 good compression ring seal but i burn oil since my oil rings are stuck.. not sure how that effects that old scholl test, but i can find out tommorow.
it comes with experience... but sure method is compression check, cylinder leakege test.. follow ezone ..


on the other hand i add 1 quart per 1000 miles it seems.. it depends on what kinda of driving i do. city or highway

ezone

OP may not have experience to compare to, nor a known good similar engine to compare to.


For the price of pulling the engine apart to fix the problems.......You can buy a LOT of oil and $3 spark plugs