Rep Power: 211

2004 Civic Value Package (DX), A/T. 80k miles, original timing belt.

Can't find a free service manual online to download so using four part youtube videos posted by: Ratchets and Wrenches, and this write-up: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...diy-2-a-8.html as guides. Also, using my previous 6th gen TB replacement experience.

I stopped working on it yesterday at a point where I loosened the crank bolt but didn't remove it or the harmonic balancer. I used a Honda crank pulley pulley holder tool, all timing marks were aligned to TDC, rotated in counter-clockwise direction to lossen and I was watching the timing belt on the cam to make sure it wasn't rotating during removal. The bolt gave the typical "pop" sound when it loosened but the timing marks moved clockwise about a 1/2 inch. I used the crank pulley tool to rotate the crank pully in a counter-clockwise and all marks aligned in sync back to TDC. I will check the crank's arrow (oil pump) mark when the crank pulley is off to ensure timing alignment.

I have a jack and piece of wood snug underneath the oil pan now and the driver side upper mount is still in place. Alternator and bracket not removed (yet).

Questions:
1) Does the alternator and bracket need to be removed? Shows that it does in both the write-up and video, (and possibly service manual).
2) Does the engine need to be lowered farther than the top of the exhaust pipe? Hoping it doesn't so I won't need to remove it. Also, looks like the a/c compressor will hit the frame if lowered too much.
3) Since I'm reusing the tensioner: after I remove the tension spring should I loosen the tensioner bolt a bit before installing the belt?
4) Should I bother with removing block (coolant jacket) bolt to drain coolant? I intend to drain from radiator plug and use ezone method of drain and fill. Also aware some coolant will drain when waterpump is removed.
5) Tips, suggestions?

 
Rep Power: 211

I now see the alternator and bracket needed to be removed.

As my luck would have it..during alternator ground nut removal the threaded stud snapped in half down inside it's case mount. I may try a reverse (left-hand) extracor but highly doubt it will remove it and will most likely break the bit. Other thought is an electrically conductive expoxy or tap in a larger bolt and install a larger ring connector to ground cable. Any suggestions?

As a side note i tried my best to get the alternator under the a/c tubing so I could just hang it out of the way without removing electrical connections. There just isn't enough space to do so. I never look forward to removing alternator connections as in my experience **** can easily go wrong..and of course it did this time.

Looks like others ran into this issue: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...nal-broke.html

In the linked post answer #12 from Ezone is what I intended to do and should have done in retrospect. I was concerned that lowering the engine would tug on the harness via a/c tubing and potentially damage it. I will most likely buy a used one and install it and deal with this one later for (hopefully) future use.

 
Rep Power: 518

Yes
Disassembling the one motor mount will allow all the up and down movement needed to complete the job.
It can only drop until the AC pulley is almost laying on the subframe, and it can be raised high enough to slide the longass bolt all the way out of the alternator bracket if you need to. (I also remove the engine mount puck from the fender when I do this job)

NO!
Pulley will move plenty after spring is removed.

Can you actually find one? Don't bother. It's on the back near the oil filter and it's a huge PITA.

The block will drain when you yank the water pump out.

There is no ground cable. That was the HOT cable.....and you probably need an alternator now. Or take it to a rebuilder and see if they can put a new stud in it.

Protip: when doing the timing belt job do NOT remove any wiring from the alternator. Just unbolt it, lift it high and lay it on top of the engine while you work.

 
Rep Power: 211

Okay. Good tips.

Alright...one less thing to do.


Thought I'd ask but wasn't really going to do it anyway..lol

Found a local used one for $35 but not available until tomorrow. May bring it by a shop and use as a spare if repaired.

I was so close to doing just that but figured with my luck I would knock it off or stretch harness during lowering possibly causing harness damage. I f'ing loathe removing any alternator's connections..rarely goes well. Anyway, I plan to carry-on and get as much done as possible with the exception of the alternator. Thanks for the tips and replies. Will follow-up when finished.

 
Rep Power: 211

I am moving at a snail's pace and don't know why. Removed left upper mount bracket for better access to timing belt, replaced water pump, crank seal, timing belt, tensioner spring and drained coolant. What is book-time on TB replacement?

Not going to replace camshaft seal. Pick up used alternator first thing tomorrow morning. Do I need to manually spin the crank 6 or 7 times to ensure timing and tension?

I used JB weld on the broken alternator (+) stud threads. Didn't put any on the bottom of the piece that broke off or the top of the stud left in the housing. I just mated broken stud ends (metal to metal) and used weld on the threads to stick to the sides of the metal insulator inside the housing. JB weld is an insulator as well. Any way to bench test it?

 
Rep Power: 229

No But why not, it's easy insurance. To make it easier take the plugs out so there is no compression to overcome. rotate counterclockwise.

 
Rep Power: 518

IDK. It varies depending on how much extra you do.
Alldata might give 2.7 for a t-belt, or 3.5 for a water pump (includes t-belt)..

If I'm doing a straight timing belt with no extras, I'm cussing if I take more than an hour LOL


Going to stray away from published service procedures, whatever that may be........

Spinning it 6x is to allow the belt to align/straighten itself and find its own track on older models prior to final timing mark check and final tensioning procedure.....but since the D17xx has a 'floating' pulley it's not absolutely necessary IMO.

You can accomplish the same with 2x then check your marks.....or if you have a lot of confidence you have it timed perfectly you could skip spinning it at all.

Dude. No. Just stop. It's junk.

 
Rep Power: 211

Thanks. All plugs out in the first 15 minutes of this project.

 
Rep Power: 211

My mom's place has a shell drive-way carport. Takes me nearly an hour to: spread (thick)blankets, place wood for floor jack, jackstands and oil pan jack, place chocks behind rear wheels, jack front end of car up and place stands in safely.. I always keep floor jack in place as well. Run a 3-outlet electrical cord extension for fan, laptop and bluetooth speaker. Tool-box, tool bags, rags, drinking water. The swamp-nuts humidity and heat here in Florida doesn't help much either..lol.

Marks look to be dead-on. I will spin it a couple times to be sure. Do I need to spin it with crank pulley on or can I just install crank bolt with gear in place and spin it?

At 80K miles it's served it purpose but it could probably go another 80k. Seems like a waste but yes..it's not worth the risk of using in it's current state. Lesson learned.

Out of curiosity: would the ECU be affected if the alternator lost positive connection..say wiring disconnected while driving?

On a side note the lower timing belt cover's bottom two bolt holes plastic molding broke off when I removed those bolts. It's rubber gasket is shot as well. Looks like an oil leak or road grease deteriorated the molding. Another set-back.

 
Rep Power: 210

you can't spin it with the crank bolt, you would be loosening the bolt, not tightening it, you need to rotate the crank counter clockwise,

normally i install the crank pulley temporarily with the key, and just tighten the pulley bolt hand tight, then i use the crank holding tool to rotate the crank

 
Rep Power: 211

Will do... thanks

 
Rep Power: 518

Crank pulley has to be in place to prevent the timing belt from walking outward as you rotate the crank

 
Rep Power: 211

Finally, it's back together and all seems to be good. Spun engine twice with crank pulley on using holder tool..timing marks stayed spot-on.The engine seems to be quieter than before..probably a placebo effect. Purchased in-stock lower timing cover + seal for $25 from local Honda dealer. Junkyard had two pulled alternators: one was a re-manufactured aftermarket and the other a (OEM) Mitsubishi..went with OEM ($35). I intend to bring the car to Autozone so they can test the battery and alternator though, no issues on test drive.

Checked valve clearances and they are still good (lashed 15k miles ago). The old accessory belts were severely cracked. The old timing belt looked good visually. I have to work all day tomorrow so I told my mom not to drive it until I check coolant levels and bring to Autozone on Wednesday morning. I'll probably do one more 50/50 coolant drain and fill + air purge.

I'm embarrassed how long this took me. I think I could do one in at least half the time now that I know which parts need to be removed and how to remove them. Will never disconnect a working alternator again. Thanks everyone for all the replies.

 
Rep Power: 140

I'm interested in this alternator procedure. I replaced mine without lifting/lowering engine or moving anything crazy out of the way. This was over a year ago but i think i just moved the power steering pump, used some combination of tools to remove the bolts (i remember one of them was a pain), disconnected the cables/connectors, and lifted it out. lol took probably an hour to do that job having never done it or never looking at a service manual. probably not the most efficient method.

 
Rep Power: 211

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You sumbitch..you mocking me?...lol..jk.
Engine doesn't need to be lowered/ raised for alternator replacement alone. However in combination with a timing belt it (engine) does.

The alternator's positive side nut was on very tight and I had a bad feeling as I loosened it something crappy was going to happen..and it did. They don't always go this way of course..however, mine did.

 
Rep Power: 140

Ah okay. You got boned on that alternator stud. lol I've never heard of that happening.

 
Rep Power: 210

i have done many of these timing belts, and i have never had to raise or lower the engine, i just support it in place while i remove the motor mount, but never had to actually move it from that position,

as far as the alternator goes, i never disconnect the wiring, i just unbolt the alternator and lift it up and rest it on top of the radiator leaving the wires all connected

 
Rep Power: 211

Probably doesn't need to be dropped..really didn't drop much anyway due to the a/ccompressor's location to the frame. My thought process was a carry-over from the 6th gen timing belt procedure. If there's a next time I won't disconnect the alternator or lower the engine. Although lowering it's just a slight more effort than supporting it on a jack with a piece of wood under oil pan.

 
Rep Power: 211

Yes..Dong got boned.

Did you read the link I posted?: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...nal-broke.html

Here's a google search of broken terminals..notice how Honda comes up often: https://www.google.com/search?source....0.YDQVvrhuaek

 
Rep Power: 518

When I do the job the car is on a hoist.....and the mount has to be taken apart which lets the engine drop only as far as it can go.....

I place a jack stand under the engine and just raise and lower the car with the hoist .......sometimes I will tilt the engine up as high as I can get it, and I use that to my advantage to make the work as easy as I can.

 
Rep Power: 211

Today checked the coolant and the levels: radiator filled to top and reservoir about 3/4 full. Some squealing at startup and off the line from stop lights. PS belt was a bit loose..increased tension and no more squeal. No leaks or drips of any sort. Alternator is putting out 14.2 volts. Battery may need to be replaced within a year..it's dated 2010. Well, hopefully it will be another 7 or 8 years until the next one. Thanks again for all the help.

 
Rep Power: 229

Good Job Man!

I'm sure everyone who works on their own car takes extra time, the first time, for the timing belt. I did mine slow as well.

 
Rep Power: 518

Seems like I do this on just about any "first" time job.

 
Rep Power: 210

thats a bit high for the res, especially if it was cold while checking, but shouldn't cause any problems

 
Rep Power: 211

That was the cold level. I can get it down to the halfway point of min and max.
It has an overflow/overfill release though, correct?

 
Rep Power: 210

should be fine,

i like to keep mine slightly under 1/2 between the min and max when cold,

and yes it will spill out if it overflows, but should never get to that point under normal circumstances

 
Rep Power: 211

Okay. Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 211

Turns out the a/c, alt belt is the squealer. The wingnut bolt is located in a PITA position to get fingers on it.. caused me to curse Honda engineers for about ten minutes. Ended up using a three foot sawed-off wooden handle and a softly tapped 20 ounce hammer to persuade that wing-nut to do my bidding. No more squealing.

 
Rep Power: 210

put a bit of oil on the threads, and use large pliers/vice grips to turn it,

i have never had a problem tightening that belt

 
Rep Power: 518

I ignore the winbolt/jackbolt completely..
From below, I just prybar the alternator to wherever I want it.