juror

The driver's side rear power window is currently inoperative. All of the other 3 windows work, as does the sunroof. In baseball, 3 out of 4 would be amazing.

On the advice of a great many threads, I pulled the door card and removed the harness, following this for instructions. I pulled back the boot and checked the wires; the insulation is cracked on one of the wires, but the wires themselves looked good. I verified continuity on all of them with a DMM.

Time to dig deeper. I observe the following on the body side of the harness:

yellow-red: +12V with the power windows enabled, GND or floating if disabled (don't remember, doesn't matter AFAICT).
Brown: up from master switch GND, down from master switch +12V
Brown-white: up from master switch +12V, down from master switch GND
Yellow and Yellow-black operate the lock solenoid.

At the five pin connector that goes to the door switch, I observe the following:

No switch activation:
Brown -> Blue
Brown-white -> Blue-yellow

Switch up:
Yellow-red -> blue-yellow
Brown -> Blue

Switch down:
Yellow-red ->Blue
Brown-white -> blue-yellow

So I back-probed the plug that goes from the harness to the motor.

Up: Blue -> GND, Blue-yellow -> +12V
Down: Blue -> +12V, Blue-yellow -> GND

This seems consistent with the observed connections at the switch, so I'm reasonably certain I've followed wires correctly. Confession time: I didn't actually see +12V as noted above. I was seeing +8V to +12V depending on how I wiggled the pins I was backprobing the connector with. I think I'm just getting a lousy connection on the backprobe (it's surprisingly dirty inside the door), but it bears mentioning.

While I was there, I also checked resistances to +12V (referencing yellow-red) and GND (referencing a bolt-head on the door, not ideal, but I can reach it with the wires on hand):

No activation: Brown, Brown-white 20-30 Ohms to GND.
Master down: Brown-white 20-30 Ohms to GND, Brown 2 Ohms to +12V
Master up: Brown-white 2 Ohms to +12V, Brown 20-30 Ohms to GND

This is with the motor unplugged, and again seems consistent with the voltage readings above.

I checked the resistance across the motor with it unplugged, I'm seeing single-digit ohms.

Following ezone's suggestion here, I put the key to on without the engine running and activated the master switch in both directions. No dimming of the dome light.

At this point, everything up to the motor seems electrically sane. I'm looking for next steps on the diagnostic front. Should I:

1. Run +12V/GND directly to the motor and see what happens (maybe my backprobing isn't the problem, and there's really only +8V at the motor)?
2. Pull the motor and bench test it?
3. Something else?
4. Profit???

Incidentally, Mrs. Juror is skeptical that this battle is worth fighting . I figured this would be a straightforward fix, but it looks like it's turning into a(nother) rabbit-hole. See also our non-working A/C, which I'll take to a garage next week. Anybody know a good A/C shop in the Somerville, MA area?

5.0Thunder

If it was me, i'd likely have pulled the motor and bench tested, or just had a $20 replacement on standby. This actually IS what I did with mine. I don't think dead window motors are too uncommon and they're pretty easily/cheaply replaced.

Colin42

you should be able to test the motor with it still in the car, and i would tape up that cracked insulation so it doesnt start shorting

ezone

Motor must be plugged in for that check. Also, that's a primary check that's generally done long before puling a door panel or taking anything apart.




If I read this correctly, that motor should run at this point. You have power and ground at the motor connector, right?
Plug it all in, smack it with a hammer while holding the switch down?


Seldom used motors can stick. A good jarring while powered can get them to run again.

juror

I will feel like an immense idiot if the motor is unplugged when Mrs. Juror gets home with the car...

I would never go about things in the most bass-ackwards complicated way possible.

But at least I learned a few things about how the wiring works? I'll quit rationalizing and find a hammer now.

Thanks everybody. Will report back after I get a chance to whack the motor tomorrow. We're short on daylight tonight.

ezone

Uhhhh, be real careful about where and how hard you whack the motor. If you crack or break one of the permanent magnets in the tube you'll be in a heap o trouble.
Rubber mallet instead? Plastic hammer?

juror

Not one of these?

Where should I (gently) whack it? On the cylindrical metal bit?

ezone

Only if you got the right clown swinging it!









Much of the time when I get a stuck motor, I can sit in the seat and hold the switch down and slam the door really freeking hard a few times and it will get the motor running again.

Smack it wherever you can reach it.....with due care. ???

juror

No dice on the hold the switch and slam the door method. And no dimming of the dome light, even after I plugged the motor back in. Yes, I plugged in the motor before slamming the door.

I'm hoping that Sunday I'll have time to hit the motor with 12 V directly, and possibly pull it out of the door if gentle taps with a hammer don't free it in the door. I'll also try running the motor through an ammeter. Hopefully that'll give some useful info.

Apropos of hammers, for anybody who hasn't already seen it: the .

ezone

So there is no load. Somewhere the circuit is going open



You had this with the motor disconnected........

Can you recheck these readings while the motor is connected?
A loaded circuit may force any points of high resistance to lose continuity.

juror

Well, that was a frustrating morning.

I picked up a new regulator at Advance a couple days ago, and went about installing it today. Since the window wouldn't roll down, I had a hell of a time getting to the bolts that hold the glass to the regulator. After half an hour and several different wrenches, I decided to just cut the cable and drop the window. Not long after, I had the old regulator out, and the new one in, and everything working.

Never one to let a problem go without getting to root-cause, I unplugged the pigtail from the motor and checked it with an ohm meter: 2.5 Ohms, which is plausible given the size of the fuse on the power window circuit. So I hit it with 12V direct off the battery, and it made a little clicking noise in either direction. I tapped it on the curb a couple times, hit it with 12V again, and it works.

If somebody has a trick for getting at the bolts that hold the glass to the regulator without being able to lower the window, would they mind sharing it for the benefit of the next person?

Thanks for the help!

Grrr.

Edit to add: At least I didn't pay full list price at Advance. I got the assembly for a total of 25% off with a couple of coupons. And yes, I know rockauto.com is cheaper still, but I figured if I needed to return the part for whatever reason, I'd rather have a brick and mortar store to do it at.

juror

Oh, and if future person is looking at this, there's a thread answering the question of how to get the vapor barrier re-adhered here.

Colin42

Duct tape the window to the top of the door so it doesnt fall and then unbolt the motor from the regulator and then you'd be able to lower the window? Haven't tried on a honda

juror

The trick is getting a wrench securely enough on the bolts holding the glass to the regulator to loosen them without rounding off the bolts. I couldn't figure it out. I wonder in retrospect if it's possible to remove the 3 bolts that hold the regulator on and lower the window enough to get a good angle on those bolts. With it all the way up, it's nigh hopeless, at least with my clumsy paws.

ezone

Beat on the motor until it runs again, then lower the glass to the right position LOL

Or...since you already know the regulator is getting replaced, go ahead and chop the cable (I can't think of any good reason to remove an inoperative regulator from a door, only to reinstall the same inoperative regulator)