Rep Power: 0

Hey everyone. I've got a 2001 Honda Civic. For the past month, the car has gradually taken longer to start. On a cold start, probably a solid 6-7 seconds. When I get in the car in the morning (even before starting) it has a strong gasoline odor. Just drove it 2,000 miles last week. When hitting the steep mountains west of Denver, CO it began to loose power and finally stalled going up the mountain (7-8K ft elevation). Got it towed back down to Denver (~5,000 ft elevation), and it started right back up. Anyways, now it will drive for several hours okay....then it will eventually stall out. If I turn it off for a little bit, I can start it up and drive a couple more hours.

My gut says it is a fuel problem. Maybe a fuel pump?


EDIT: I'm not really sure how to hook up a fuel pressure test gauge to this vehicle, don't see a service/access port.

 
Rep Power: 517

Use your nose to figure out which end of the car the smell comes from?
Engine compartment, or rear by the fuel tank

Then look and feel the fuel lines and injectors and rail to see if there is liquid seepage or leakage

Got any fault codes? EVAP system leak codes?
Gas mileage figures down? (if you calculate at every fill up)

 
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I can't comment on the gas mileage, but I do know that after letting the car sit overnight, the car's interior smell is intoxicating when opening the door for the first time in the morning.

To better access and monitor the fuel rail, is it okay to temporarily run the car without the air filter/resonator?

 
Rep Power: 517

That bad? If it stinks that bad you should be able to find the leak pretty easy IMO

Got puddles on the ground or wet streaks on the outside of the gas tank? Pull the back seat and inspection cover and look at the top of the tank/pump? (cracked pump cover?)

 
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Well, jacked the car up and saw a sizable leak coming from the gas tank. Not sure where the leak originates from. Maybe I could drop the tank a little bit to get a better view.

I've attached a picture. What would be a probable leak point towards the top edge of the tank?

 
Rep Power: 203

Maybe pull the back seat out first and see if it originates from around the fuel pump.

 
Rep Power: 517

*cough*
I'll add the possibility of rodent damage, they seem to like some of the plastic fuel lines over here for some reason.

 
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Sorry, forgot to mention that I did that. Looks clean as a whistle. Didn't remove the access plate though.

 
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Okay, so I'll probably drop the tank to see if I can get a better look at the top side.

 
Rep Power: 517

Duh. Remove this and LOOK.

Don't drop the tank without a damn good reason.

 
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Now that I stop to think about it.....you're right....DUH.

Ya, wasn't looking forward to dropping the tank. I'll wait on that. Going out to check the access plate now.

 
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Alright, I've spotted at least part of the leak. Removing the access panel shows the following (see attached).

Does this mean replacing the fuel pump?

 
Rep Power: 517

Dry it all off then cycle the key and see if gas is coming up through the cracks in the flat yellow area.

That housing is the fuel filter, it can be purchased through aftermarket sources without the fuel pump but some people have issues getting it assembled correctly.

Honda only sells it with the pump assembly.

 
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Done. See the following video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mvg...ature=youtu.be

 
Rep Power: 517

Ayup, it's junk.

This can be fixed without removing the fuel tank, which would have been a whole lot of unnecessary work. That entire unit will come up through the access hole.

You just need the right tools to get the threaded ring unscrewed....then reinstalled after repair.


Quit running/driving it. You're a fire hazard.

 
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Alright, I'll call around/look online for pricing for the whole assembly unit.

Wise words!

 
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Thanks ezone for your help. I've replaced the fuel pump assembly and no more leaking. However, I noticed when I got in the car yesterday, it still had a smell of fuel. Putting my nose to the fuel pump assembly (access plate removed), I smell fuel. Is this normal? If so, does the access plate and seat act as a buffer to the fumes normally?

 
Rep Power: 517

The cover needs to be in place. Yes it helps seal out air/mice/smells.

There may be a lot of spilled fuel that has to evaporate before the smell goes away.
Make sure there aren't still leaks of any sort though, or it won't quit stinking.

If everything is properly assembled, there shouldn't be any (new) gas smell.

 
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It was all dry when I finished installing. I guess I could have let it dry overnight with doors open or something. I'll get the seat back off and take a look.

 
Rep Power: 221

do you have any gas soaked gunk still on the underside of the car from when it was leaking? make sure you get rid of all the old gas residue.

 
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Well, still a slight hint of gas in the car. I took the seat and plate back off. It's dry as a bone. Took the car up in the mountains around here and after going up from 2,000 to 4,000 ft the car began to stall out again. Pulled over and put it in neutral, car struggled to rev. Shut the car off for about 10 minutes. Started back up and drove just fine going back down where I parked it at home. The area that was leaking before is still dry after the pump assembly was replaced, but it is possible there is some air that is able to get in the tank, as it seems some fumes are escaping around the gasket and locking ring causing the cabin to have a slight gas smell.

Got any ideas?

 
Rep Power: 517

You didn't put the cover back in place yet?


Got an OBD2 reader that can check the onboard emission test monitor status? See if the EVAP monitor (test) has run and passed.


Try just turning the key off for about 10 seconds, see if that gets it to run ok again. (instead of 15 minutes)

I'm not familiar with altitude change strategy programming in those. I live in flatlands, never dealt with mountains.

 
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Yes, I put the cover and seat back on. But I've also taken them off a couple times to check that everything is still dry.

Also, I don't have an OBD2 reader yet, so don't think I can run t hat test unless it is something the local auto parts guys can do with their scanner.

I know when I was in Colorado (also when going up a mountain) a couple weeks ago, I tried turning it off for a minute and starting again, it ran okay for a couple minutes, then went back to stalling performance. Only after letting it sit for a good bit (30+ minutes) was it good to go for the rest of the day (back on relatively flat terrain)

 
Rep Power: 517

I think I'd want to be able to view live operating data (datalist) on a good scanner while it acts up.
They try to pick out any sensor data that doesn't look as expected, if that's even present and possible. Assuming this is an electrical/electronic failure, not mechanical.

 
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Well, I've got an update on the situation. Took the car out and was okay for the first 30 minutes or so. Then it started acting up, got the point where I couldn't get above 20 MPH. Shifting into neutral, it was still slow/hard to rev. The exhaust even started to have a burning smell to it one point as I was pushing it. However, almost seemed like a trans issue at the same time. See the Youtube vid I just uploaded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVh1...ature=youtu.be

Engine temps began the rise at one point (about 3/4 up the gauge). When I finally got it home, popped the hood and the engine was steaming slightly. Had auto parts guys run a code scan (since the CEL is on). Registered the following codes:

* P0740: Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit / Open
* P1361: Top Dead Center Sensor Noise
* P0700: Transmission Control System

Before the most recent 2,000 mile trip, the car was shifting and running great, so not sure if it is a sensor, torque converter, or what.

 
Rep Power: 517

Chase this P1361 code first. Is the sensor bad? Did the code set during the poor running event? Does the cam have excessive end play?
I'd probably just replace the sensor first (Honda part, not a cheapo), since it seems to be heat related and intermittent. Replace and see if the same code returns on the next trip.

P0740 code.....Unplugged TCC solenoid? Broken? Bad solenoid?




Has the CEL been on this whole time, before you started the thread???? Always check fault codes out first and foremost.

 
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P0740 has been on almost since I bought the car May of 2015. Besides the code, never had any symptoms of anything wrong with the transmission, shifts like a dream. That was the only code on, until today or recently. I've had it checked about every other month while at the auto parts store to make sure there weren't any new codes.

I guess the fuel pump assembly leak had me going down a fuel direction for a diagnosis. No doubt it needed to be replaced, but obviously didn't solve the problem.

I'll chase the P1361 code now.

 
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I should probably also mention, that about 3 weeks ago, when the vehicle stalled going up the mountain in Colorado, I took a video of the engine after starting it up again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYlf...ature=youtu.be

It was moving/vibrating more than usual.

 
Rep Power: 517

Yeah. Fix the CMP sensor problem (P1361) first.