Niaboc67

I do not own a floor jack yet and was wondering if I could use a scissor jack instead of a floor jack to raise and lower my car onto a jack stand? I have a chock too. This is also on a dirt road, don't know if that matters. Can I get by for the time being with just a scissor jack to raise and lower on my jack stand? I need to do a belt change. I know the floor jack adds more protection, I was thinking of taking the tire off and placing it behind the jack stand for added protection and maybe a few blocks of wood so the car cannot completely fall.

Never raised a car before.
Thank you

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Floor jack doesn't really "add" protection but a scissor jack is fine to use. Jack stands are the key to making sure it is safe because you don't have to worry about hydraulic failure or screw failure from a scissor Jack.

I would do it on a hard surface but if you have no other option then put a piece of sturdy wood/concrete under the Jack before lifting the car.

ezone

Pretty sure your owners manual covers at least part of this.Yes, BUT you have a ways to go first:

No it doesn't. You NEVER get under a car until it is supported on jackstands or similar so there is no possibility of it falling.
A floor jack can fail, just as easily as a scissor jack can fail.



Hell yes it matters, DO NOT DO IT
Don't use a scissor jack on dirt, and don't use a floor jack on dirt.
Neither are safe when used this way, dirt is neither solid nor stable.
Don't use a jack stand on dirt either.

I hope you have written your will.

Niaboc67

Good thing I asked. Can I put flat pieces of plywood on the ground first? Such as, putting plywood on the ground then placing the scissor jack on top of it and jacking it up. Then placing another piece of flat plywood on the ground and placing the jack stand on top of that and then lowering the scissor jack so that it falls onto the floor jack. Wouldn't it be stable?

Thank you

ezone

I wouldn't do it.
I don't even like to do this on asphalt, because it's not very solid.
Can't you move to concrete?

Wood can compress, it's not all that stable. Plywood can bend under the weight of the car sitting on a small area.
I might use large 4x4 chunks to spread out the weight on the ground if I had to do it in dirt.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I have jacked my car up in my yard before using a piece of wood underneath the Jack and stands. Doesn't make it safe but I felt like it was after I tried rocking the car. I also was not getting under it.

There must be some solid ground somewhere close.

drhawkinz

I wouldn't use plywood, use something like a 2x8. This way the whole jack stand will fit on and it the it'll help spread the weight to a larger patch of ground to prevent it from sinking.

Niaboc67

There isn't. I cannot drive this car the way it is, and cannot afford a tow truck and such the p/s and alternator belts are worn badly. Having a plank of wood wouldn't be secure enough? What about a piece which extends to hold both the jack stand and the scissor jack?

Niaboc67

Like having both the jack stand and scissor jack on it at he same time?

Niaboc67

I might have an old door lying around. I live in an old country house got to be something laying around which can distribute the weight properly. The job I need to do on my car is replacing the p/s and alternator belt. I was able to remove the three nuts in on the p/s power and got it lowered and removed the belt. But cannot get the alternator belt without removing the drivers side wheel. Could I just cut the alternator belt and drive without both the power steering belt and the alternator belt? would that hurt the car?

Wankenstein

OP: find a hard surface, a friend's or relative or a mechanic. Not worth risking your life or health to save a few bucks.

I have a compacted shell driveway and I lay down 3/4" PT plywood under both stands and 3 ton low-profile rolling floor jack (which stays lifted as a backup to jackstands) on center lift point. I always worry that the wheel chocks might slide on the 1/4" (or less) of loose top-shell even with e-brake engaged and rear tires firmly planted.

Once, I get the car on jacks I rock it front to back and side to side to test the support. I've had a car on jacks on this compacted shell multiple times and occassionally for several days in a row and so far no issue and wood compresses only minutely with this surface. However, I'm still paranoid each time under the car and I would never try plywood over loose sand and especially using a scissor jack in conjunction... that's nucking futs

Niaboc67

My plan of attack now is pushing my car to a concrete slab walkway which is large enough to fit the car. The ground is sort of like rocky concrete if that makes sense, sort of a mixture. I don't have any pressure treated plywood. But I can find some plywood lying around for sure. Also, I wasn't too sure where to jack it up from. Like since I need to remove the drivers side wheel should I jack up from the pitched welds on the drivers side or should I jack up from the front of the cars center lift points? Also as an added precaution I was thinking of finding some random heavy objects to throw under the drivers side of the car, like old tires, heavy metal crates things of that nature.

I plan to rock the car from side to side and from front and back to make sure everything is firmly secured.

Also do I need to use two chocks on the back tires of the car? or will one suffice?

ezone

I believe the owners manual would have you use this in the event of a flat tire.

Supporting safely on a less than ideal surface is a matter of spreading out the cars weight over a large area to reduce instability of the ground surface it's resting on....and you really shouldn't use another soft material to do it.
The scissor jack, a floor jack, a jack stand all have very little surface area on the bottom, they are intended to be placed upon a solid base. The bottom of most jack stands would slice right into the ground like a knife, like standing on a shovel in dirt.

If you drop the weight of a car onto a jack stand on thin plywood, it might be able to rip through and that's not stable. How much does the car weigh, how much of that weight is gonna be placed upon the stand, and will your flat surface hold up under that weight?

Niaboc67

I won't be using any plywood, to be safe now I am going to move the car to a slab of concrete, the car is a 03 honda civic, edmunds.com said it weights 2403 lbs. I have one jack stand which I was told was 3ton. This is the procedure I was going to do, put the car in park, then e-brake it then put chocks or wood blocks and wedge them on the opposite diagonal side tire to the tire I am working on. Then I will scissor jack the car up on the drivers side by its pitched weld then once the car is up place the jack stand adjacent to the scissor jack and then lowered it onto the stand, then raise the scissor jack again to just slightly touch the car for added protection in case the jack stand gives out. Then take the wheel out place that on the ground adjacent to the jack stand for a third level of protection if both the scissor jack and jack stand give out. Then get my tools and begin taking out the alternator/ac belt.

ezone

I didn't care about a real number, we all know a car is dang heavy. I just wanted you to be aware and use your head before you get into a bad situation.

The jacking point could conceivably have over a half-ton of weight on the jack or the stand, and the ground. All that weight on such a small contact area on a soft surface is not good.

The legs are just stamped steel, they are probably made of about 1/8" thick steel. The shape gives plenty of strength, but the bottom is wide open.



If the total exposed surface area of the bottom of the jack stand is (example, guess) 1/2 of a square inch, that calculates as 2000 PSI trying to dig holes into the dirt with the base of the stand.

Like a cookie cutter with a ton of weight pushing on it.

It will easily dig a hole for itself and cause the car to sink, or as the stand settles it can tip unevenly and cause the car to fall off of it.



------------------------------

The rest of your plan sounds good.

If removing the wheel: Loosen the lugnuts about 1 turn before you raise the tire off the ground!

Similar procedure when installing the wheel: tighten lugnuts by hand as much as you can, but final torque (tightening) should be done with the tire on the ground.




And make sure you get all the alternator bolts tight. Someone forgetting to tighten all of the alternator bolts is the leading cause of PCM failure on that car.

Niaboc67

So I was able to lift the car off the ground on a piece of wood, this was a test and it left no indentation of any kind. Also, found out that I won't have to take the wheel off at all, although it's good advice for the future for when I do, I've been watching non-stop youtube tutorials on it. I am a bit more concerned at the moment on getting the alternator belt off. Hope you can help me with this because I took the nuts, bolts and belt off from the p/s pump and moved that out of the way so I could better access the condition of the alternator belt. I felt the ribbing of the belts and there is absolutely no cracking whatsoever, although the belt was super tight, especially at the bottom. The belt maybe had less than 1/8" overall deflection. So tomorrow I plan to loosen the middle nut next to the adjusting wing nut and then loosen the lower alternator nut. After that loosen the adjusting wing nut and take off the alternator belt. Then see how freely the pulleys spin, could still be a bad bearing somewhere. Right now I think the tension was askew. But I already bought the belts so I'll be installing both the p/s and alternator belt tomorrow, and make sure that the deflection is somewhere between 1/4" to 1/2". Hopefully, the squealing and rubber smell goes away.

ezone

Loosen this bolt (14mm head) about one turn so the alternator isn't locked in place
(It will still be tight to move, but not impossible)





Then loosen the 12mm head bolt (blue)
and adjust using the long one (either 10mm or a wing head?)


Tighten all to spec when done.

New belts can stretch, they may need readjusted soon after install.

Niaboc67

That 10mm wing nut seems to be the hardest part right now. Does the 14mm alternator bolt and 12mm head bolt need to be loosened for the thing to move? I know the sequence follows that order but I was wondering if it just a stubborn rusted bolt or if the sequence has to be followed first for it to turn. I think you were referring to a wing nut socket? probably going to pick up a universal one.

ezone

Uhhhh, it depends.
The loop that holds the threads could be in a bind due to the other fastener, and as you try to turn the thing it will be trying to move the entire alternator along with the belt tension.
I see a lot of those that have their threads seized up, when I do timing belt jobs.
If I think about it while doing that job, I may spend a minute to free it up before putting it all back together, but I rarely even use it when I assemble and install the belt. I just use a prybar to move the alt from below, and tighten the bolt when I like the tension on the belt.


Some years used a 10mm head on the adjuster bolt, other years used wings. I never remember which years used which style.

I wasn't referring to a special socket, but I made a socket for the wingnuts and bolts with wing heads.
I cut out slots in the sides of a cheapo 9/16" socket.