PMI

First Post - please wait until 2nd to flame, thanks! I have owned two Accords (RIP) and one Acura Integra 1990 vintage (bit sad but still going), so I am generally familiar w. Hondas, but Civics not so much.

I recently purchased a 2002 basically on a whim, noticed it was in better shape than one of my typical winter cars, but - and as disclosed by the seller, it has had no maintenance to speak of in 8 years.

The couple who owned it did not use it as a daily driver, took it to a neighbourhood mechanic twice per year for an oil change and a quick check, and that was it. Nothing has been replaced except battery, brakes, tires, fluids, and a broken windshield (none of the usual scheduled items).

104K miles.

CARFAX shows one rear-end accident w. damage to the r-bumper. Fuel door release is not working and probably broken, there is an occasional clunk from the front shocks on bigger bumps, couple small rust spots and lots of bumper nicks, mint interior, 5-year-old tires with ~50% tread left. Engine bay is one of the dustiest/dirtiest I have ever seen, 'cept for the new-ish battery. Two tires need replacing, driver-side door seal is loose, driver seat has a bit of a wobble front to back, steering wheel is peeling a bit at 12 o'clock, passenger-side door only opens about 50% of the time with the remote.

Aside from the engine bay, and the bumper nicks, the car is incredibly clean after a good hand wash and vacuum.

So, my Q: Where to start? I know I can't replace everything that is past due at once, and I like to think I have "rescued" this car from an early death by neglect, but no way can I address every single thing, and Winter IS coming...

Any suggestions on where to start, which manual to order, etc?

mac25

The front clunk will 95% be a bushing, locate it, it's easy to press in a new one by renting a bushing press.

The passenger door remote may be a bad electric door lock or a ground issue (easy to fix but a pain in the *** if you have to start testing wires).

The fuel door is just a bike cable that loops down to the interior handle, check to see if it is installed. if it is but does not work inspect it (or find a scrapyard replacement).

The 01-05 civic manual by the brand Haynes is what you're looking for (it has mechanical diagrams and electrical schematics).

mikey1

this means you are at least one year OVERDUE for a timing belt replacement, that should be priority number one, that belt is a ticking time bomb, and time is not on your side

priority number two would be to get the front end inspected, front end "clunks" can be very dangerous, ever seen the results of a snapped ball joint?.....its not pretty

Mad Dog Tannen

Sounds like it needs all preventative maintenance done at the very least. Go through the scheduled maintenance in the manual and do EVERYTHING on the list.

PMI

Thanks for the tips!

Passenger door seems to be opening for me now, and I have a second fob remote on order.

@mac25: Fuel door release is due to a broken plastic collar on the cable, just behind the release mechanism, but the cable itself is intact, so for now I am settling for the quick-repair kit from Dorman. Next year I may tackle a cable replacement, but for now that is too much trim to remove/replace. I had some trouble with the molding at the release lever, but it is off and in one piece now. Broke a couple of the white plastic clips though... (ok, more than a couple... )

@mikey1: The timing belt is well past due, based on # of years in use, but the car was not a daily driver, and the 2000 and later belts were pretty strong, so that is down a notch or two. I am hoping it is not too different from the dual overhead cam engines, in which case I should be ok to DIY it.

I have not seen a snapped balljoint, no. I have seen a drive shaft sheared off at the wheel. It does not seem like balljoints, b/c the wheels are pretty solid, but then again, I have not inspected them.

What can I say, the body is in nice shape (rare for the Midwest at over 12 years), the engine runs fine, and the interior is almost mint. The rest... meh.

I am wondering about the ignition and such, the car starts and runs fine, but I think the plugs and a belt are the only thing ever replaced (!). Engine bay has a 1/4-inch layer of dust and dirt in places.

@Mad Dog: Yup, everything. Which is the main reason for this thread, where to start? How critical is the transmission fluid? I wonder what the filter looks like after 100K miles (chuckle).

PMI

Going to inspect the suspension today, and look for worn parts and bushings. Any tips will be highly appreciated...

The sound I am hearing is occasional, usually when one wheel goes over a bump or pot hole, and not too loud, so at a wild guess I would say perhaps sway bar links....?

mikey1

sway bar end links

lower control arm bushings

ball joints

struts/strut mounts

PMI

Two of the sway bar end links are broken, and a third one looks to be in bad shape. I am going to replace all four. Ordered Moog parts today from Amazon.

Lower control arm bushings seem intact, but I will take a closer look when I replace the links. I think i will need to clean them to see any cracks or obvious signs of wear.

Balljoints are OK, no excessive play found.

Struts feel fine while driving, no sign of worn shocks, or bad mounts, but just b/c I can't see it, does not mean mounts are intact. The broken sway bar links are consistent with the car being driven on Chicago streets (pothole playground) for the last few years. That would suggest that the struts may not be long for this world either...

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

The main ones for suspension are:
1) top mounts
2) sway bar endlinks
3) compliance bushing (the biggest one in the lower control arm - usually ripped off)
since you already pinpointed it, just check the others. Sometimes it could be engine/trans mounts too, powertrain rocking back/forth

timing belt is really recommendable at 100k, so everything associated with it should be recommendable (for peace of mind, i recall some going forever...)
so timing belt, water pump, head gasket 9aother famous one...)

there's also the famous driver seat rocking, the fuel door sticking (which you seem to have found already... - there's a fix DIY somewhere)

also, check the "forgotten tune-up mods..." thread by gearbox (search by his handle in conjunction with the title, should give you results fast)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

better yet, follow the link

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...e-up-mods.html

PMI

@sdaidoji: Thanks! I found some of it, but not all and I will def. look for the "forgotten" tune-up mods!

Is there any way to check the top mounts w/o taking the suspension apart? By the time you do that on a car w. 104K miles, I might as well start replacing whatever is a wear item. I want to start with what's visibly broken and see how she rides.

(I have most tools needed and access to a good garage, but with no real heat, so I plan to postpone what I can until spring).

I am 90% certain the ball joints are fine (no play or give). Struts look and feel ok, but obviously they are 12-years-old. The links are def broke on one side, not just bad or loose, b-r-o-k-e-n (!). I have a Moog set of 4 on order.

I could not see the LCA bushings well (too much dirt, not enough light, but I will inspect them more closely when I do the links. I have access to a machine shop with a press, replacing those should not be hard. Getting the arms off in the cold... wellll, not sure I am up for that b/f winter.

Driver seat has some give in it, but not much. The interior is close to mint, one reason why I bought the car with almost no maintenance done.

I did fix the fuel door release. I used the Dorman kit which is stock at Napa b/c I could get it more quickly than the one online. Fitting the interior trim panel, lock, and release bracket back together was not easy. I do have some pics, but there is already a decent tutorial in this forum. Two of the trim panel clips broke and replaced, too.

Fuel door release fix kit: Napa NOE p/n 7356844, $16
Clips: Honda p/n 91560-S04-003, ~$1.60 ea, disc.

I think the timing belt is due at 120K miles, and I have been told by a real mechanic that since the car was parked 4~5/7 days the last few years, it is not as critical to go by age as I first thought (although I plan to do it anyway).

As for headgasket, I don't see any signs of oil on the outside of the engine, or on the bottom (?)

Thanks again.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

In the sticky, overheat common causes thread, we have the explanation. The exhaust gases goes to the coolant and it is spewed out from the overflow reservoir. That's how the headgasket shows itself first, loss of coolant

Mad Dog Tannen

That is not always the case. A head gasket can blow and not effect the coolant. It can be a oil channel or cylinder to cylinder.

M00n3at3r

Mine was forcing exhaust gases into the cooling system but it never overflowed. Didn't burn coolant either. Must have been too early to hit catastrophic failure.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

PMI,

forgot one - if you have auto, we just got another member that the trans failed. Pretty common occurrence in the auto trans...

PMI

Yes, sadly aware of the weak auto transmissions... no choice though, my g/f walks with a cane, using both feet to drive is not an option, and I want her to be able to use this car when necessary... On the other hand, the manual transmission in my '90 Integra is almost as good as new.

At least Honda offered Accord owners an extended warranty for the same issue. I DID buy this car on a whim, but at least as far as the transmissions are concerned, I knew what I was buying going in. See link below:

Civic Auto Transmission Issues

edit:

The other thing I am considering doing, is this:

OEM External Inline Filter Kit p/n 06250-PLX-A01

Unfortunately, I don't know if this was just a Hail Mary pass on the part of Honda, or if it actually works.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

i see you have no choice then.

You checked the other thread, but it is still worth giving a look into this one:
not sure if this is correct or not, though...

also, we don't have much info in that filter kit either... worth a try? the issue is that you will only know the result some 100k miles from now?

PMI

I read the second thread now, thanks.
wrencher wrote about the screen: To me this means that changing the fluid more often will not solve this problem b/c the blockage is already in the filter.
then he wrote later: His post from 8-25-2012 seems conclusive to me, but again, applies to ONE transmission.

PMI

I don't, but you or someone here may - Gearbox installed one.
No, I don't agree w that. Here's why:

IF wrenchers diagnosis is correct, and the problems are caused by fiber blocking the screen, not by excessive wear alone, AND IF the external filter starts to catch the fiber as it is circulating through the system within a few thousand miles, THEN it is worth using.

On the other hand, IF the external filter is still clean after, say 5~10K miles, it means the fiber is staying in the internal screen, and this attempt at a preventive fix will do nothing.

Used transmissions with 100K miles are about $700 on car-part.com (shrug). There is an almost new one for that price from a rollover, too.

edit:

And, if wrencher is correct, we can diagnose, and maybe predict, the same problem by measuring the pressure at 2000 rpm... has anyone done that, I mean compared the pressure on a bad trans with a good one, side by side, under the same conditions?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

fair enough good points

if i remember something more i will drop it here

PMI

Thanks very much for all the tips,

PMI

It's the links, at least in front. I took the front sway bar end links off completely yesterday, and pivoted the sway bar ends up to keep them from making contact. Then I intentionally drove my Milwaukee pot hole and bump suspension test route. and there was zero noise from the front, and only an occasional little clunk from the back (which I have not touched yet).

Now, for the "intewesting pawt" and my Q: The large bush in the left front LCA is not look torn out or loose, but that connection point looks bad. The busing does not look centered and the angle looks off. The car tracks straight and steers fine, with a bit more oversteer than I think it should have on sudden lane changes and such, which may be due to the sway bar basically doing nothing.

I know that on some suspensions, when the LCAs get messed up or loose, the sway bar and sway bar end links start taking a beating, and the end links and or the two sway bar bushings break. However, I don't know enough about the geometry of THIS suspension to tell if this is what's happening here. I did notice that the OEM sway bar links look week in the ball and socket ends. The plastic socket is the only thing keeping them from breaking. I may have been designed to be a sacrificial part, not sure.

Incidentally, this would explain some of the complaints about aftermarket sway bar end links breaking after a few thousand miles. If they broke because of another suspension issue, they will just break again if the original problem is not addressed, regardless of the quality of the part.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

the large one is the compliance bushing i mentioned, usually the first one to go.

keep in mind sometime you will need replace them.

I have my old LCA out of the car (was cheaper -120-ish? - to simply get new ones and slap them in there, and now i have spares out of the car to work on pressing new bushings into them at my leisure )

PMI

Agreed. Most bushings this age are hardened, and cracking by now. This will be easier for me once the outside temps are higher, I have access to a nice garage (or two) with tools, BUT neither one is heated, and Wisconsin winters are, well...

120 for remanufactured w. new bushings, or used? Either way, good price.

I installed the Moog sway bar end links on the front today. They have a four sided nut opposite the lock nut which is easy to hold in place with 18-mm open-end wrench, and grease fittings. I like'em. 90% of the clunking is gone, and the front rides much nicer now. Back ones may have to wait.

I also did the 3x drain and fill on the auto trans. The old fluid was pretty dark, almost like French Press coffee. The magnet was coated with a metal paste, but no large particles. I did the old style drain & strain all three times, and found only two small flakes of metal in the strainer, thin as paper, and maybe 1x2 mm. Nothing that looked remotely like fiber residue, no fuzzies like wrencher reported. Maybe in the spring I will drop and crack the trans and see what horrors may be hiding inside...

Done so far:

- Baby's got new shoes: I decided to replace all four tires, not just two. They were def still within spec, but two were clearly badly cracked, and one of those two started to separate. General Altimax RT43, ~$410 installed, local tire & brake shop.
- Sway bar end links, fronts installed, rears still in the box. $98/4, amazon.com
- Auto trans fluid, 9 quarts, $75, about 20 ox left, Honda dealer
- Wipers, Bosch beam style, $24
- New Key Fob

Thanks to the tires, I am 1/2 way through my first year budget.

Left to do:

- Rear sway bar end links, install
- Timing belt & water pump,
- Front compliance bushings (or whole LCA)
- Brake Inspection
- Cooling system inspection, hoses...
- Rustfix and touch-up on two small spots.
- New/used emergency jack (can't find)
- Front seat fix (not sure if needed)
- Spark plugs and other small tune-up items
- A/T needs a new dipstick
- Rubber floor mats for winter

mac25

Sounds like a plan, man!

PMI

Thanks, any other input on service or maint. to do b/f winter sets in is very welcome.

The car seems fun to drive, despite being an auto transmission and limited engine power, so I am sure that new front bushings, strut mounts, ball joints etc would only improve things, but I just don't have the budget to pay a shop to do that right now, or the constitution to work in a garage with a small space heater for days on end. And frankly, I enjoy the DIY route. Its going to be a second car, so parking it for part of the winter would not be a tragedy, either.

The other thing about front suspensions, once you have it out to do the mounts, balljoints, and bushings it seems like a crime to put it all back together without new shocks, tie rod ends, and where do you stop??? (chuckle)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

an RSX rear sway bar is recommended - much better handling you could get them in scrap yards?

car-part.com

PMI

good suggestion, I have them practically on speed dial... I would really prefer one with the RSX still attached tho..

There was a local RSX base for almost the same $, and with new shocks and tires... a stick shift - in other words a car my g/f can't drive w. her disability - I almost cried (I'll stop now b/f the Civic gets jealous, LOL)

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

PS: Mac25 and me are running very thick rear sway bars (Mac is on RSX, I am on Progress) and we DON'T run the front sway bar and the car is still understeering!!!

highly recommend this mod (not maintenance, being why i did not mention until now )

PMI

Understood, and a suggestion to consider, definitely.

My car seems to have much less understeer than the '90 Integra, or other similar cars. Not exactly what I expected in that regard.

I suppose I won't know what's up with that until I get the rear links installed. Alignment, maybe. I may have to go "test drive" a couple others to see if it is typical of the breed,

I am going out of town for a couple weeks starting Sunday, so I won't have a chace to touch it, but, I WILL have lots of time to read up, and look for parts.

I really liked the design of the Moog links btw, removing them intact would be much easier than the OEM ones, because you don't have to rely on that tiny allen wrench socket to keep the ball from turning. I suspect that the Allen/Hex Key socket is really just for torquing down the nut on installation, not to help during removal.