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Hello,

Honda 2004 Civic EX, AC, PW, Automatic.

My daughters civic died right outside of my house, about 200 yards from the driveway. Had it towed to my house. It was turning over fine but would not start.

It had an automatic starting unit and alarm. By the time I got home it had drained the battery. I unplugged it and removed it today, it was always a pain. The car started right up after I charged the battery... Could have been the starting unit but now I'm not so sure.

Drove the car about a mile and it conked out again. Tried to start it and it did sputter. I waited about 1 minute, tried it again and it started up. Turned it around and drove it home.

Just tried it about 2 hours later and it ran fine. Drove it about 1/4 mile up a hill that I knew I could coast back down, no problems.

What could be failing? Is there some component that intermittently makes the 2004 civic stall out?

Thanks in advance, redbug2

 
Rep Power: 518

Dude, it could be anything.

Can you figure out what's missing when it quits?
"Read" the plugs?



Compression, spark, fuel.
In the correct amounts, at the correct times.

 
Rep Power: 150

Two thoughts:
1. Could it be alternator has failed and you were running on battery? So you recharge the battery and it runs okay until the battery is drained again? Batteries often get unreliable when they have been drained. Maybe you should get the battery and charging system checked?
2. Bad gas? Is the gas tank near empty or the gas is possibly stale? I fixed a camping generator recently. It wouldn't start and I cleaned the carb jets and bowl. It would then run great for 20-30 seconds and cutoff. I drained gas tank and refilled with fresh gas. Runs great now.

 
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Ezone, you're right, it could be anything... Just looking for any known issues that all 7th gen owners address. I know it's a stab in the dark... I had a 1990 accord that had a known distributor issue.... My 2001 ford truck has about 3 known failure points. I guess I'll just have to drive it around town and call my daughter to pick me up so I can get my truck & trailer to haul it home if it dies...

Bsmiley, I believe it's charging, I'll check it again. Battery drained because I believe the remote starter drained the battery. Thought about bad gas, could be it. I'll stop by an auto store and buy some dry gas to clear out any moisture in the tank if there is any...

Thanks for your help.

Regards,
redbug2

 
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I found a possible cause for something like this in my EX sedan -- a battery that had one cell low on water...

I'd filled it in Feb when I bought the car, so it was time. I was having a slight issue with the car not adjusting gracefully with the sudden induction changes I was making... and decided to see if the least-common-denominator kind of problems were responsible (the car has been about as reliable as can be for a while now -- even the non-electrical problems are nearly gone)...

My #6, far right cell was even registering any coolant -- perhaps a result of being closest to the hot air coming through the rad. Also my #1 cell was a bit low, which I couldn't explain. Mind you, I've never had a CEL or any other symptom to kick up a flag for me, until that weird three-crank-start incident a few days ago. But the battery is the heart of making smooth, useable power, since without good blue spark, power suffers, no matter how trick everything else is. Topped off the battery and took it for a semi-long drone on the highway...

Felt a bit weaker at first (sure, since you're diluting the solution a bit), but as heat and electrolysis dissolved more dry lead sulfate into solution, the result wasn't strength, per se -- it was grace, surprisingly. My car got progressively smoother and less phased with any load, whether 70 mph or the A/C at idle in afternoon heat -- it handled things a lot more well, gracefully. You can thank a hotter spark for much of that, esp at idle.

Moral: inspect and if necessary, top up your battery with distilled water every season, esp if you live in a place that has summer temps (>75 degF). When your alt charges the battery, there's always heat as a result. This why the shroud around the battery is a loose plastic case rather than a fiberglass blanket or something -- not only does the batt not need the rad heat, but the battery itself needs to cool off and needs that air space for the heat to go.

 
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OK, I think bsmiley called it and kinakoes2 backed up the theory that the voltage was low. Started the car and checked the voltage under full load, AC, full blowers. 12.58 to 13.25. Something, but not what I was looking for. Took it off and strapped it to the back of my motorcycle. Auto parts store put it on there machine, it passed, but greatest voltage was 13.9. I did not think that it was a full load and just didn't feel right, expecting 14.5 or greater, so I got a new one.

Took it home, put it in. Full load, 14.65 volts. Got in the car and Wow, seems like a new car. Drove it around town, no stalling... Zippy now, much more hp and responsive.

Driving it into work in Philadelphia today, 40 miles in, fingers crossed... After I get home, my daughter gets her car back and I get my 2006 civic back!



Regards,

redbug2

 
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Darn, got in car this morning and the battery was as dead as a doornail. I think my new alternator has a faulty cutout relay.... or, the battery is shot. Only 1 year old. Put it on the slow charger, will get to the bottom of this over the weekend.

 
Rep Power: 518

Or something is stuck on, drawing the battery power when it shouldn't be.


Amp draw test.

 
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My bad... Was replacing harnes bracket on alternator and I must have shorted the positive lead. Noticed that even after battery showed fully charged nothing was on.. 80 amp fuse was blown. New fuse in, test drives tomorrow. Everything looks great again.

 
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OK, still having the problem. I replaced the alternator and the big 80 amp fuse. Drove it last Saturday and it died. Got off to the side of the road, 30 seconds later it started.

I remembered that I had removed the black relays under the glove box a while back and put them back in. The car would not start. Jiggled them and it started.

It died for the second time saturday so I pulled out the two black relays under dash, they looked the same, same part numbers, I switched them around. Car then ran great all weekend. Was doing well until yesterday. My daughter said it died on the highway while she was rolling but then it recovered.

This morning it cut out again and then started up a minute later.

This problem is killing me! I'll be driving it tomorrow. I wish it would just die so I could find out the real problem.

It's either spark issue or fuel delivery issue..... I think I'm going to put my timing light in the cab and see if it stops flashing next time it dies.... I do think it is a spark issue. Is there somewhere I can bypass everything and hard wire the ignition system with a jumper cable?

Could this be the fuel pump?


Any ideas?

Regards,

redbug2

 
Rep Power: 308

Have you looked close at the major grounding points ??

Minus battery, and others where many grounds come to 1 terminal.

 
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I agree with Craig because something similar to this sort of happened to me right after I changed my head gasket. The ECM ground wire that attaches to the top of the water passage was not tight, so right after I put the engine back together it idled rough for 5 minutes and then stalled out. After the stall, the starter would keep cranking forever without the engine catching because the ECM couldn't get the firing sequence to the engine.

The way I diagnosed this is this: plug in a OBD2 scanner. This completes a secondary grounding circuit for the ECM. If the car works fine with the scanner plugged in, then there is a fault in ground for the ECM. It was very entertaining using the OBD2 scanner as a kill switch for the engine until I fixed it

In your case it sounds like it could be loose and occasionally just breaking the circuit/completing it while you drive around. When it dies, do you have any accessory power?

 
Rep Power: 518

Is there a pair of blue relays there too?

 
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Grounding is an interesting idea. The main ground wire right up front is oxidized toward the engine. This car came from NJ and it probably was right down near the salt water based on the oxidation I see. I don't think it went through Hurricane Sandy... The interior is fine, so I don't think the car was ever submerged.

I'm just going to replace the ground wire. I'm in replacement mode at this poin.

Ezone, this is a photo from my last posting. You can see the two black relays that I switch around. There is a blue one there also.

 
Rep Power: 308

I could never find it later... but once saw a photo of one of the multi-grounding terminal connector that they use and it looked horrible from age and exposure, an 04 would be creeping up there.

And of course the main connection from minus battery, I would just remove and clean it at body connection.

 
Rep Power: 518

My wiring diagram shows 2 blue relays as PGMFI main relay #1 and #2.

It shows 2 black relays as AT Reverse, and AF sensor heater relay. If equipped.

Next step would be to verify wire colors at each relay to be sure of what each is actually for, since swapping could have put the relay colors in different places.

 
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Bought the ground wire today from Napa, $6.

The black relays I rotated had the same exact part numbers... The blue and orange(?) ones were never removed.

 
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I saw yours didn't match my diagram.......
That's why I said the next step would be to check all the wire colors. If this needs further pursuing.

 
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check park plugs, they could be loose or old. also check if the a/c is on, i know for sure that made my battery die heaps quick. also... have you tried jump starting anyones car lately? i know for sure the smaller/ older civics can't support another car without dying later on in the day (experience).

 
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I've been having a very similar problem with my 2002 lx. It's a manual transmission. I've been getting no-starts for about two weeks and they're completely random.

When I had the ground wires replaced and had my battery checked, It started up fine right after. My check engine light and SRS light are on as well. I went to pull the codes and there aren't any!!!! we Shut the car off and when I went to leave, it wouldn't start again. It cranks but just wont start sometimes. It usually takes just a couple times of trying and then starts, but other times I've had to try for about 20 Minutes.

Yesterday on my way to work, it just completely died in the middle of traffic. ZERO POWER! I couldn't even turn on my 4 ways. Even after having the battery charged, it still wasn't getting any power. (This was before the grounds were replaced). This problem has me pulling my hair out!

Suggestions??

 
Rep Power: 518

Sounds like poor connections somewhere between the battery and the car. Whomever installed your cables (ground wires?) should probably reinspect their work, or figure out the real problem.

Poor connections: Somewhere between the battery and fusebox on the positive side, or between the battery and the chassis/frame/powertrain on the negative side.

Prudent use of a test light might help locate the cause, use it as a basic voltage drop indicator....
Or get it to act up and selectively wiggle cables and connections to narrow down the area of concern.

CEL on with no codes is a concern. No communication at all, or just no codes stored?

 
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The CEL isn't on anymore, just the SRS light. it went out after we replaced the ground wires. We were careful to clean and scuff the contact areas when we installed the new ground wires. We replaced the battery to chassis ground wire, the wire is 4 gauge copper brand new. we also replaced the engine to chassis ground wire. for the positive wires the car had one of those crappy bolt together terminals that always go bad, so we stripped the existing wire back a little (there was no green showing on the copper) and pressed a new lead terminal onto both the fuse box lead and the one that goes from the battery to the coil packs to the alternator. we're 99% positive the problem isn't with the grounding cables or the battery terminals anymore, will check to see if the nuts connecting to the battery cable are loose in the fusebox. is there anything else that might cause it to start sometimes and not others?

 
Rep Power: 518

There's a zillion things that can cause it to not start.

Testing is the proper way to determine the cause of your problem. Testing would verify if you are correct on your 99% theory.

You said everything electrical in the car goes dead, right? Concentrate on that. Battery power is not getting through the path to the fusebox, or back through the ground path. Gotta figure out which and where.

Google 'voltage drop test', see how to do it.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 518

Wait, I just read this again (reading comprehension is not my strong point LOL)
So this has not happened again?


Ok then go to the starter, I'd put a test light on each of the 2 wires to see what's going on when it does not start. Is there a positive signal from the ignition switch circuit? Is the starter losing power on the big wire when it won't crank?

I've seen a loose fitting connector on the small starter wire cause serious hair pulling frustration for someone in the shop.

Actually, I'd probably first grab a small hammer and tap on the starter while someone else holds the key in the cranking position. If a tap makes it crank again, it probably needs a starter.

 
Rep Power: 150

Anymore problems with it not starting? Its a manual tranny, so test your clutch pedal interlock switch. On cold mornings mine doesn't close until I have depressed the pedal an extra time or two.

 
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Funny should should ask. It acted up two days ago and died yesterday. I had started another thread because this may be an unrelated issue. It's an automatic.

Here's the new thread:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...c-stalled.html

 
Rep Power: 150

I was actually thinking of BrittanyVT92 from post #20... I did read about your stalling issues Redbug but I got nothing to offer on that one...

 
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Back in the day, I had a similar issue w/ my '93 Civic EX. I found out that temperature changes in the cab were wreaking havoc on the main power relay, which was notorious for cold solder joints. All I had to do was pull the relay out, pop the cover off, and re-solder each of the solder joints. Never had that problem again!

That said, I am new to this generation of Civic, so that may be useless info. But it'd be a good path to verify.