nuke777

I just finished with a brake fluid change and I noticed that when I go over 80kmph my steering wheel starts to shake. It gets worse at around 95kmph and gets better at around 120kmph. What could it be? air in the system or I tied the lug nuts not uniformly? Also I've noticed that I have to press the brake pedal a little dipper and its softer then before.

Any help would be much appreciated.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

easy to test...

are you answering it yourself?

get there and try instead of posting in the internet...

kinakoes2

How was the system bled?

Were the lugs torqued on the ground after coming off the stands?

When someone tells me about a problem that seems to have nothing to do with the system they supposedly fixed, I try to go through the proc. Sometimes in the case of brake service, the wheels have to come off. Having lug nuts poorly torqued can definitely affect stability at speed.

I found going a touch over the FSM spec for lug nut torque both cured my pedal judder AND gave me some high-speed stability. I would bleed again, going from the FL corner to FR, RR, RL, in that order.

nuke777

Thanks for the reply guys.

RR,LR,FR,FL. I'm coming to conclusion that along the way I introduced air somehow. but wouldn't my brakes fully sagg if there is air??



no, I torqued them on the stands , at 80ftlb.
I'll try to retorque them tomorrow, see if that helps. then next weak I'll bleed them again.

one more question, if lats say I am bleeding and along the way I introduced air, do I have to bleed thrugh all 4 tires again or just the tire that I let the air in?

again thanks for the help guys.

ezone

Specs? Two grunts and a heave?


Check out the video here, it's all about specs! Bubbas Tek-nikal Tips!!
http://www.lindertech.com/bubbasgarage.htm

Damn I can't link the video directly. Gotta click above.

kinakoes2

FSM spec = Factory Service Manual specification.

So yeah, specs. From your FSM.

--

To be precise... +5 lb/ft, or 85 lb/ft. If the lugs or lug nuts can't handle that much more torque, over the wobbly-**** ride and brake pedal feel I had with OEM spec, these 7th-gens must've been contracted to North Korea. Still brakes nice and smooth, still tracks great at high speed with +5 lb/ft.

kinakoes2

Try bleeding clockwise from the FL this time... may get a different result (some manus specify FL, RR, RL, FR, like Subaru did).

Re: brake mushiness -- depends on how much air is in there. The key is to always keep the master res filled with some amount of fluid, and always bleed with pressure in the system (e.g. with a foot on the pedal). This takes a while to do by itself, so use a MityVac until the fluid is clear, then bleed using pedal pressure.

Not so sure if this applies to Civics or cars in general... but as a moto tech, one trick to get all the air to pool and rise so it didn't take ten thousand bleeds to get it all out, is to tap the rubber lines with fingers and the calipers and lines with something solid, gently -- like the handle of a screwdriver. Then again most of the lines on most bikes are more vertical than horizontal like a car's, so YMMV.

Another track trick we used to do before a big race, was to apply the brake lever until we felt firm resistance, then ziptied it to the grip -- this forces air out of the fluid in the system overnight, so your brake feel becomes nice and precise in the AM -- with no mushiness... at least without steel-braided lines (stock, a Civic will swell in the rubber lines no matter how well it's bled).



If they were torqued at 80 before, keep it at 80... just need to retorque with the car parked on level ground. I think my car's previous owners either themselves or their car care droids, overtorqued mine... probs with an impact. Mine seemed to ride, brake and handle noticeably better at 85 lb/ft.

If you don't know which line the air is in, yes you'll have to bleed them all. That's the reality of it to do right (pro tip: start with the one you worked on -- if it resolves after that, booyah, you're done). Luckily, it's pretty easy... but I'm betting you'll find it worth it. BTW, the ziptie trick (curtain rod trick for cars?) doesn't work to clear big bubbles -- I'm talking the ones you can barely see, in little sharp corners and crevices in any system.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

i put all lugs until they touch the wheel
then tighten slightly one lug (it could not have the wheel perfectly seated centered on hub yet)
then tighten slightly at least two more (this will center the wheel to the hub)
and then loose the first one and re-tighten the lugs to specs.

nuke777

as a matter of fact I had them quite a bit while draining the system.

Any advice on what is the proper size of the hose to put on the bleed nipple? something about the hoes that I used just did not seat right. btw I am driving civic 2002 coupe.

Also I have 400ml of fluid left can I still use it after a week?

will try this out tonight. Thanks

ezone

Wait...You DRAINED the brake fluid out?
As in, you let the reservoir get empty of all fluid?

kinakoes2

Wait wait wait -- you didn't drain out all the fluid, then try to fill it through the reservoir... right?

No brake system is designed to be drained completely, then refilled to change fluid. This'll mean at the very least, a vacuum-pulled fill, as with a Vacula, will be needed, or one with a positive-pressure push of the fluid through the reservoir to an open bleed nipple. With either method, a bleed will still need to be performed to rid any extra air from the proc.

nuke777

no ofcourse not, lol you guys gave me a good laugh wrong wording can make alot of confusion.

nuke777

Ok, so I did the procedure of bleeding again this time using the right hose and using zip ties to it down to the nipple. quite a few air baubles came out. I am happy with the brake part of the problem however the shaky steering wheel is still there.
I aligned the wheel and hand tightened the lug nuts in criss cross pattern while the car was on stand, then I lowered it to the ground then tightened each one in criss cross pattern some more then I torqued them to 80lbft. I did this procedure for each tire, what am I doing wrong? I bought these tires brand new in January and only have 7000km now. They had an alignmed done when I bought them.

Is it posibul that the shaky stiring wheel is coused by the fact that I rotated my tires when I did the brake fluid change the first time? cause that's when it started.

ezone

Are the tires and wheels actually round? Raise car and let the wheels spin, watch the tread.

Are they in balance?

Are these stock wheels or aftermarket?

Return to your tire installer and have them evaluate for possible tire warranty situation, or at least a pro opinion.

???

kinakoes2

Agree -- if you've done the install part okay and the tires were properly balanced to the wheels, it shouldn't matter if you rotate them. However if you rotated only the fronts last time and now switched the backs to the oppo-corner fronts... then there's your problem.

When there's a vibration involving the rear wheels/tires, you'll feel it in your seat. If it's in the front, you'll feel it through the wheel.

nuke777

They are round, I'll double check it next time.

these are Michelin defender tires and they were fully balanced to my wheels when I bought them.


I rotated them only once in a criss cross pattern.

tbh I noticed today when driving at 40km a slight vibration in the seat and when driving above 80km in the steering wheel as mentioned before. although the vibration in the steering wheel is getting gradually less..... or maybe I'm getting used to it .

This happend right after I finneshed with bleeding the brakes fluid and rotating the tires. So I strongly dought that it is due to bad tires. I'll wait a week and if it persists I will rotate the tires to how it was before then will see what happens.

Thanks for the help guys.

ezone

"Round" to you might not be the same as what I consider "round".

If the wheel is bent into an octagon......it ain't gonna ride smooth.

I can spin a CUBE on the tire balancer and get it perfectly balanced, but once that cube is on the road do you think it's gonna ride smooth?


Yeah that's kinda extreme for an example, but you might not believe how small some tire issues are that can be felt inside the car. By some people.





I still say swing by your tire shop, have someone go for a quick test drive with you, and get another opinion.

nuke777

well before I start throwing money away I want to try and resolve it mysellf. But why did it happen right after tire rotation/brake fluid change, it was perfectly normal before

ezone

Stock or aftermarket wheels?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

does that satisfy?

my butt feels it less than the hands on the steering wheel

nuke777

I assume they are aftermarket since they are 15" and not 14". I've inherited this pile of baggage only 10 month ago.

ezone

7th gens could have come with 15" wheels.
What year and model car are you dealing with, anyway?

I was more interested in whether or not the wheels center on the hubs. Stock wheels always do, but aftermarket wheels usually don't center on the hubs without centering rings. If the wheels aren't centered, they can spin 'egg shaped'.

nuke777

civic 2002 LX coupe. How do I find out if the wheels are stock or aftermarket? I am preety sure that civic 2002 has 14" wheels, but I might be wrong.

kinakoes2

The stockers usually have the Honda logo on the center cap, even their accessory wheels.

They also have the 'made in Japan by mfr' (JWL) castings somewhere visible on the wheel, that look like this (top right mark). JWL mark means it meets Japanese wheel standards for castings, as self-cert'd by the mfr... so you know it's either made, or was cert'd for use as OEM equipment, by Honda.

ezone

There were 15s available on them.





From http://torontohondaparts.com/PartsLi...sis&illid=5804

nuke777

Thanks for the help guys, Ill wait a little before I dish out money on new wheels.