Rep Power: 0

2001 honda civic lx 2dr
Ok well i was driving home from minnesota to virginia right after deployment. While on deployment i had my sister replace all belts(including timing belt/water pump/tensioner) new alternator and all four shocks. I was going down the highway with the cruise on everything normal then cruise control shuts off out of no where my battery light and cel come on, car is still seems to be running fine.I pulled over shut the car off looked things over but when i turned the car back on i heard one of my belts squeeking for about a half second which i didnt think to much about at the time. After i pull over look things over i made my way over to an autozone had them read the code they said it was my TDC(Top dead center sensor) which from what i gathered was a cam position sensor. Talked to a shop about it they said i should be and could hav ejust randomly tripped so i unplugged the battery to reset the pcm and clear the cel. I continued driving the cel never came back on but battery light was still on but alternator and battery where holding just fine. I made it about 500 more miles with the battery light on until the next day back on the highway cruise on everything running fine until cruise shuts off again and my rpm gauge and temp gauge drop to zero. My first thought that the car was completely off but when i made it to the side of the road it was still on. At this point the cel came back on but battery light went out also the key light was flashing. I shut the car off turned it back on the belt squeek for a bit longer rpm/temp gauge still showing nothing key light still flashing and the cel was on. I tried to drive to a shop made it about half a block and the thing just had no power like it was in limp mode. The engie was idling pretty roughly and had to give it just a hair of gas to stay on.

So i get it towed to a shop rent a car and drive the rest of the way to virginia. Next day i get a call from the mechanic saying my ac compressure is seized and there was all sorts of metal shards in my ac lines. Which makes sense why my belt was squeeking, but doesnt make sense to why my rpm gauge and temp gauge werent working. My only thought is that since the ac compressure was so seized that it wasnt allowing the belt to spin fast enough putting to much load on the crank and hurting the idle and potentially slowing the alternator to much to where it possibly sent a short somewhere that effected my rpm/temp gauge.
The mechanic is replacing the ac compressure and hes gonna let me know what happens after that. I am over 400 miles from the car with no way to get out there soon so i cant work on it myself like i usually would, so i pretty much stuck getting stiffed a big bill from this mechanic. Im just trying to think of what could have caused everything else to get messed up just from my ac going out. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly apreciated.

 
Rep Power: 0

To sum it up
First day: CEL(top dead center sensor) and battery light on. Reset the pcm to rid the cel battery light stayed on, squeeky belt
Day 2: Battery light on until CEL came on then battery light turned off, RPM/Temp gauge dead and key light flashing motor still running but rough to idle and in limp mode.
Day 3: Mechanic replacing seized ac compressure awaiting results

 
Rep Power: 518

First half of the story makes me think that whomever did the timing belt job left the alternator bolts loose. You described a lot of stuff that happens as the PCM gets fried from overvoltage by the ungrounded alternator.

That would be squealing, alt light, CEL, IMMOBI key flashing, random haywire gauges, and limp mode. All can be caused by the alternator losing its grounding.


Not sure what to think of the Cam sensor code (it it's that) Got a code number?

As far as the AC, I'd have the shop put the shorter belt in to bypass the compressor for now and correct the (suspected) alternator hardware problem.
THEN see if it is gonna live.....or need a PCM.

I'm suspicious of the AC diag. As soon as the clutch is turned off, the rest of the compressor is out of the picture and cannot affect the engine running, even if it were locked up solid it can't affect the engine running as long as it remains turned off.

 
Rep Power: 518

Here's a PDF with the info on loose alternator hardware, and there are far more possible symptoms than are listed. Anything connected to the PCM might be affected, and some symptoms seem random when they do it.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/wzy1mnmdwrl/August+2004.pdf

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

ya its a little late on bypassing the ac since hes already ordered the part and putting it in tomorrow. Been reading alot about those alternator issues you are talking about and its possible that when they installed the new alternator that they didnt tighten down the bolts enough causing it to not ground properly ill call them and ask and have the mechanic check the bolts to ensure they are tight. Really hoping that the pcm isnt toast cause that could be a pretty penny to replace unless i could pick up a used one and have it reflashed to my car. Its just hard with it 450 miles away and i work nights so im usually asleep if the mechanic were to call and i dont really think he knows all to much about hondas and how a faulty grounded alternator could mess with all these other things. Ill just hope and pray for a miricale that this guy knows what hes doing

 
Rep Power: 518

You can send him the link.....
The same info is in Alldata under starting and charging > Service bulletins, if he wants to look it up for himself.




If he can still get codes and data out of the computer right now, there's a good chance it may be OK once the root cause is corrected.

If the PCM cannot communicate at all with a scanner, it may be too late for it. (This seems like it has been the threshold between good and bad for these.)

Cross your fingers and pray to the Deity of your choosing.


HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

the code that it threw that first day was p1362 for the TDC(top dead center) from what i read its the cam position sensor

 
Rep Power: 0

Just curious but if the alternator is brand new would it still cause the belt to squeek if it isnt grounded properly or would that be a sysmptom of a faulty alternator

 
Rep Power: 518

Hmmm.....TDC (CMP) sensor no signal...
Could be as simple as being unplugged, or maybe a bad cam sensor.


Cross the rest of your fingers LOL

 
Rep Power: 518

I can't hear what you hear as far as the squeak noise. I'm picturing something LOUD yet brief, just after startup, lasts a few seconds.

Squeak as in belt noise is usually just improper adjustment.
Occasionally it may be due to cheapo low quality belt.

Most with a slightly loose alt belt make a horrid screech briefly upon startup, then it goes away. A large load on the belt like heavy electrical use and AC use might bring the squeals back while driving.

If the alt mounting hardware was left loose, it could have backed off the belt tension adjustment while driving.

Or is could be simply a new belt stretching after installation, could have been installed too loosely....several possibilities there.







A faulty alternator that quit charging SHOULD just illuminate the battery symbol warning light.

Yours seems as though it was still charging, evidenced by the distance you were able to travel with the light on.
You had listed a bunch more symptoms though. Symptoms consistent with a toasting PCM.

Uh, bad engine/trans/battery cable grounds could cause the same thing.

 
Rep Power: 0

little up date to the situation. From what he was telling me my alternator was extremely loose and missing a screw from the tentioner which makes alot more sense to what all the symptons came from. Hes gonna test the altternator to ensure it is still good whish it should be since its brand new and if that comes back good he will reattach it with new hardware and tighten it down really good. praying that everything with with the pcm is fine still waiting to hear back from him on the results of the alternator

 
Rep Power: 0

Update:
Old alternator tested and was still discharging so replaced it with a new one. Got it all back on with new hardware and tighted down real good. No longer discharging or belt isnt squeeling. So thats one good thing. Bad side is that the car is still in limp mode key light still flashing and cel is on. Mechanic said the rpm/temp gauge were working but he didnt sound so sure of himself when he told me that. Tonight he is gonna hook up the code reader to find out what the cel is for and reset the pcm to see if it rids the limp mode and key immobilizor. Still hoping my pcm is good but at this point im almost just preparing for it to be bad.

 
Rep Power: 518

Not good at all. Very bad.

If the alternator problem is now fixed and the computer is still in limp mode, it's toast. It probably won't have any communication to a code reader at this point.


Did your guy see the bulletin info for himself?
It says to test powers and grounds at the PCM, then replace the PCM if powers and grounds are ok.



Replace PCM, have the keys programmed to the new PCM.
Take ALL the keys --- or whatever keys you have at home and in your pocket won't start the car.

Assuming your guy swaps the PCM himself, with either a new or used unit:
To avoid a tow truck fee, the car would need to be driven to the dealer using the original PCM, then connect the new one in the parking lot for programming the immobilizer keys.
Maybe check with the tech where to park before he unhooks the original PCM so they don't have to push the car to reach the wifi for programming. Make it convenient for the tech LOL.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

When i talk to him in the morningill have him check the power and grounds to the pcm. Assuming a new pcm would run like 800+ bucks what other options are there anyone sell used/rebuilt ones or possibly getting it repaired. just trying to avoid the cost of the new one cause when all said it done ill probably be pretty close to what the car is worth with labor and parts

 
Rep Power: 518

You could get brand new from a mail order dealer (link) cheaper than list, if you can get an actual current part number for the unit.
If I had your VIN I could probably look that up and maybe be more specific.

Used is always an option, provided you can find the right one. www.car-part.com

Either of these will still require going to a dealer to get the keys programmed, unless you have a very well equipped independent Honda shop with the right scanner (HDS) or a very well equipped locksmith in the area that can do the programming. Here in my city, the dealer is the only place.

Since keys and engine control unit and immobilizer control unit are all matched, some salvage yards sell them all together from the same car. This way one could avoid going to a dealer for programming, but there is a lot more work involved to replace all the parts, PLUS you would now have different ignition keys.


I have no personal experience with getting one of these PCMs sent out to be repaired.


My personal preference would probably be a used PCM, drive it to the dealer as outlined earlier, swap units in the parking lot, and have the dealer do the programming for the keys.

If you go with a used controller, try to get the VIN of the car it came out of. It could come in handy.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 518

Where's the car at? Indiana or Ohio?

 
Rep Power: 0

the vin number for my car is

1HGEM21511L095931

 
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its right on the border of west virginia and ohia, but the car is in proctorville,oh

 
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is the ecu and pcm the same thing, when i searched pcm on majestic it only came up with wiring harness's but an ecu came up for about 406 bucks

 
Rep Power: 518

Hmm. Manual trans car. Non-Calif emissions.

37820-PLM-315 seems to be the current part number for that VIN, according to my info. Looks like 458 McDoubles plus shipping from Majestic.
Not sure if there is a core charge on it or not, call and ask a human in the parts department at that store.

It's found under the heading of "Control Unit (Cabin)"


Technically, since the introduction of OBD2 standards:
ECM= Engine Control Module, normally associated with manual trans because the unit only controls the engine.
PCM= Powertrain Control Module, normally used with automatic trans, the same unit controls both the engine and transmission.

U= Unit, same as module.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 0

does it matter if its rewritable or not? i keep seeing ones that say rewritable and others that arnt

 
Rep Power: 518

The part number I found doesn't specifically say rewritable in the catalog listing. That really only has to do with engine operating software, not the immobilizer function.

I think most factory replacements are rewritable now. The dealer would have to flash (upload) the latest software into it (at least check for any newer version, at the minimum) probably while they have it for the immobi programming. They may want extra fee for it too.

If I have to replace a PCM for whatever reason, I'm expected to do all this as part of the job.

HTH