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Not really a mechanical issue... but I was wondering today something concerning the key fob on a 7th-gen vs. later Hondas...

I bought my mother a '13 Fit last year to get her out from under a dying domestic car, and noticed how nice it was to have an integrated fob with her key. Having just replaced my '04's fob, I wondered if it was possible for an integrated fob to be programmed for my older car? I carry a lot of keys due to caring for a few properties, and if this can be done it'd be well worth the $100+ to me -- I'm already seeing false button presses on my fob from sharing a ring with the separate key.

 
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For some reason, you can only find them for 8th gen Civics. Theoretically it would be possible; I'd recommend contacting a Honda dealer to see if it can be done.

 
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Straight up, the systems are different so you cannot just program a much newer key to your older car. Electronic fob guts are different, and the transponder chip is different too. Different systems are different.

If you feel like modding/hacking/cobbling, you might be able to stuff your fob remote guts into the new key case (I have no idea if it is possible or how hard it would be to do).
You would also need your original transponder chip (embedded or molded into the old key head) to insert into the newer key housing, and you would need the newer key blank cut to fit your car once you figure out the remote and transponder stuff.

 
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GIS for honda flip key mod

If this pic stays up, this is from an element owners forum (since deleted).
http://www.elementownersclub.com/for...=32226&page=83

 
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Thanks fellas -- once I have a hole in the schedule I'll ask my dealer (though tbh I'm not all that confident in their ability to help me). That TL flip key mod is exactly the thing I'm looking for. Not worried about the Acura badge.

 
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I doubt your dealer parts department will be of much help, the computer will not tell them what you want to know.. (unless they sell Acura too, then there is a lot more available)

I know exactly how much info they have available for Hondas, I have Hondas here in front of me LOL.
They may cut your key blank though.
You have to do your own research, average parts department people won't lift a finger unless they are an enthusiast. (Ours only know what the computer tells them.)


Look into which Acuras use the flip keys, and what years had them available.
Then figure out what immobilizer system that particular Acura would use.


The 04 Civic used Hondas Type 3 Immobilizer system.
If an Acura with Type 3 Immobi and a flip key exists, it would seem those MIGHT be compatible.

You are the guinea pig!

 
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Gotcha, ezone -- yeah reading through that Element thread was long but gave a lot of info, such as subbing an RDX faceplate so you can eliminate the TL's trunk pop button, and that someone tried to transplant a Type 3 chip into the desired-year TL fob (Type 4); still have to read more to see if it worked.

At any rate, willing to tinker is it's not hugely expensive. Will update.

 
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So... after putting my brain in a Cuisinart reading 86 pages of people asking the same questions (well, when you're expected to read 37 pages of posts where no one wants to consolidate confirmed data... of course they will), this is what I've learned about a flip key mod for 7th-gen Civics:


-- Any Type III immobilizer system will not work with an '07 Acura TL flip key, which is the one the OP of that almost-90-pg EOC thread used. This includes our 7th-gens ('01-'05). '07 TLs are Type IV.

-- Eighth-gen Civics are Type IV, so just need their immo chip programmed by the dealer + key cut. You can get the key cut by a locksmith, but IIRC still need the dealer to get the transponder to recognize the TL chip -- 5 min, but may charge $35 (or a *lot* more) just for that part. Any Honda/Acura with a Type IV system needs only the immo chip reprog + key cut to have an Acura flip key, as you can do the door lock/unlock programming yourself in 5 mins.

-- If your remote fob says OMRON on the back, it is almost certainly a Type IV system.

-- There is a solution for our Type III (ALPS) key/fobs, though. In order to use the TL flip key... after cutting the blade for your door locks and ignition, the TL fob's immo chip must be removed... then your valet key (or any Type III key blank you buy and prog to the car) can be cut open and the chip fished out, to be epoxied into the slot the TL's original one sat in, then reassemble. The immo system should now think the key is your old one. Many '03-'05 Element owners have done this mod successfully (Type III). Seems to be a debate as to when Honda changed to Type IV in '06 in the Element ('07-on is all Type IV), but that has nothing to do with us.

-- Another popular mod there is using a Ridgeline integrated key (non-flip key with remote head like a Fit's), which apparently doesn't suffer the fragility problems Accord integrated keys had (blank didn't extend into case far enough, so they break in use, apparently). Same challenges as the TL flip key for adapting to Type III, though.



So these are the steps I forsee going through to do this:

1. Get TL flip remote (and if you like, an RDX face plate to eliminate the TL's trunk pop button that can't be used on quite a few Hondas, let alone Type III cars). Cut to match 7gen key (lots of Honda dealers have refused to cut Acura keys, esp in podunk HI where I'm at... which is indicative of how little some Honda/Acura dealers know Honda and Acura are the same company with a lot of shared componentry, so no risk involved ).

2. Buy extra T3 key blank, cut and prog to car (AFAIK, dealer only). This will become my new spare key with the original separate T3 fob.

3. Cannibalize original T3 7gen key to donate its chip -- cut around edges of plastic head with file or bench grinder down to metal, then lift off plastic side with H logo -- chip will be encased in silicone there. Carefully extract.

4. Disassemble the TL flip case to expose the molded 'coffin' the T4 chip sits in (1/2"L x 1/8"W long glass pill). Extract, then use space to house T3 chip. This completes immo chip compatibility issue -- immo system thinks it's your original T3 key in the ignition when it polls.

5. Now to program the door locks, which is five mins and can be done yourself.


Voila, your very own TL flip (or Ridgeline non-flip) key, fully functional in a 10-yr-old T3 7gen Civic.


Sounds easy enough... except I want to do this correctly and make a spare key in case something goes pear-shaped (which the loctite'd silver screw on the TL fob has been doing for a lot of Element owners who've tried this; apparently it's down to not being cheap on jeweler's phillips drivers). That in itself is $65 here at my dealer... then the TL flip key is $68 - $78 nowadays (used to $38 back in 2006-2008, until American Honda/Acura caught on ). If the dealer humors me, then they may comp the programming if I ask nicely... but I don't think I rate that as a customer yet, so we'll see.


Again, will update when more things happen.

 
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Saw this
Protip #1: Screwdriver, "JIS#0" tip (JIS=Japanese Industrial Standard)
Protip #2: Heat the blade of the key to 175*F to soften that Loctite.




Good luck. Make a tutorial if you succeed and post it here in the DIY area!

 
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Actually can vouch with experience for both points...

Though I never stripped a single Big Four cross-drive with my Snap-On Phillips (and if that was ever looking like an issue, the impact driver came into play)... even that tool isn't cut correctly for Japanese cross-drive screws (esp pan-head ones).

The difference is subtle (it's slightly shallower)... until you have to apply lots of torque on cheap pot metal ('80s and early-to-mid-'90s Yamaha screws are a good example). Then they make all the difference. Since Phillips has a longer head, they don't fit all the way to the edges of the legs of the 'cross'... so can strip out. I was fortunate in my Snap-Ons that they had anti-camout ridges on the head to prevent slipping, so most came out just fine.

Heat for loosening any seized fastener is basic wrench tech. The silver screw on the TL fob has blue threadlocker thank goodness and not red on it, so the heat required to remove that screw should be way under what would melt the casing radiantly -- probably a good idea for hacking apart an almost $80 fob. I may do what some EOC guys used, a soldering iron & a few seconds. Already have JIS drivers (though being beat on for 13 yrs they probably need swapped).

 
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(I forgot who you were....the powersports dude)


I LOVE LOVE LOVE the ACR bits! I must keep a spare half dozen or so #2s at all times for when they break LOL. Hard to find, and we only have one tool truck that comes by our shop these days (Matco)


Heating the key, they put that in a monthly service news...they say to use a heat gun and check temp with a meltable 175 degree wax "commercially available" thing that nobody knows WTF you are talking about when you call the suppliers---- F that, I use the butane crack torch and heat it til the plastic around the blade JUST starts to get shiny wet looking... LOL

 
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Totally -- I get that these are nicely-engineered solid-state components by Acura (and their marketing droids)... but in the end they're just parts. Use what works and doesn't make a mess.

Heat pencil (Thermomelt) is possibly what they were referring to? The only stuff I've used was that @500F for header pipe primary length. I'm sure an infrared temp gun would be just as accurate and less to clean up.

 
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Nice coincidence... I was just looking into this last night, and actually found this post because of this:



On the page though, it says that it's only for the 2003/2004/2005 Civic SI / SIR, and won't work on the EX/DX/LX. I can't find why though.

I did see this listed for a 2004, which is a different style key, but lists it as working with all trims, which for my car it actually won't:


I have the 2004 Civic LX, which has the laser cut type key from my first picture. Are not all of the 2004 Civic's like that?

I tried googling the differences in keys between the SI and other cars, but I'm flooded with useless posts that say something like "the key differences between blah blah and blah" instead of information about the keys themselves.

 
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It might depend on markets (countries), we don't all get the exact same cars worldwide.
An 04 Si in the USA is not the same car as an 04 Si in Canada.
We don't have any SiR here in the USA either.


Seems like when I saw the pics you posted (ebay?), they were from somewhere in Europe.

 
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That top one is pretty much what I need -- a flip key case with the immo chip and keyless entry guts simply transplanted into it.

What's not clear at the moment, is if the new case has another immo chip in it. If so, then no need to get another spare key, as all that needs to be done is to reprog the chip to the car and cut the blank.

If not, then I have to buy and cut a new master key to replace the old one I cannibalize for its immo chip, install chip in new case, then get the blank cut (car only polls the chip once on start and won't care if it's in another case or the OEM key).

Been reading on an Element board that these Chinese/Taiwanese flip key cases tend to be of shoddy construction, breaking the plastic at the hinge -- that's not an option, then. It's one of the reasons I'd like to get an OEM Acura case. More likely though... I'll get a Ridgeline one, non-flip but with the fob integrated into the key, just for cost and size reasons.

 
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Gotta pay attention to the immobilizer TYPE as all use different transponder chips.
You can't use a type 6 chip with a type 3 system, it won't accept the chip.

 
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Sorry, forgot to include the eBay link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ALLin1-KEY-R...-/360527396567

 
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Shipping and handling



Item location: Taipei, Taiwan

 
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True, but it's the only thing I've found so far.

Is transferring the guts an option with any since the FCC ID wasn't even close?

 
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As far as I can tell, that's probably the only way if the system types aren't a match.

Gut the new item until it's an empty shell, install your working parts into that shell. If possible.

Plus it's made in Taiwan. It's a cheap imitation of the real thing.

FCC ID doesn't tell the whole story.
They reverse engineer something, they know it should work for the few cars that use the same ID. They don't necessarily know what other units might be compatible even though they may have different ID numbers.


CLUES:
The USA parts catalog lists the exact same key blanks for 2004 3 door (Si) and sedan.
Both of the cars use immobilizer system type 3.

However, the transmitter original part numbers are different. That doesn't necessarily mean they are incompatible.

Check out the transmitter part numbers in this info http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/misc/98-011.pdf

The ebay item you found COULD work ok for any 04 Civic.....but I certainly can't guarantee that from where I sit.

 
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I may be just barging without actually knowing the entire story of this thread, but from your OP, I think it is actually very possible since there is already a DIY on this.

Here's the link

 
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That's why, in that case, you'd take out the Type 3 chip from a key that holds one, and transplant it in the fob Type 6 fob. If the keyway physically accepts the key from a fob used with a Type 6 system, then all you need is to put the appropriate chip in proximity so the transceiver will read it.


[T6 CHIP][T6 FOBKEY]=== [T6 TCEIVER] <-- GO

[T3 CHIP][T3 FOBKEY]=== [T3 TCEIVER] <-- GO

What I'm saying is...

[T3 CHIP][T6 FOBKEY]=== [T3 TCEIVER] <-- GO

This is the solution that the Acura TL key had for the Type 3 Elements, even though it was a Type 4 fobkey. All you need to do is provide the chip the t'ceiver wants, and it won't care what physical Type the fobkey is *intended* for. As long as the fobkey fits the keyway and turns the tumbler, it'll start the car *provided* the right chip is in that fobkey. In the TL key case, the T3 chip has to be dug out of the T3 key, T4 chip removed from the Acura fobkey, and the T3 taking its place. Easy-peasy lemon-squeezy.