Darcane

I took my '01 Civic HX to the dealer today to have the airbag recall done. I've only had the Civic since this summer and they had no previous records on it. As part of their service, they did a "Multi-Point Vehicle Inspection" and found a number of items that needed to be addressed, including the timing belt. I was told the markings on the back of the timing belt were all worn off and that the belt looked aged.

I looked under the hood quick and there is still a thin coat of dust/grime on the timing belt cover and there are no smudge marks from someone handling it. It doesn't appear to have been removed and I saw no obvious inspection holes. So, how did the service tech inspect it?

Since I have no receipt from the previous owner showing it was performed, I can't prove anything, but the previous owner told me it was done at 120,000 miles (it's now at 154,000).

So, is the dealership trying to get extra income or was the previous owner pulling my leg? What's the easiest way to inspect the timing belt?

ezone

Right. He didn't. Nobody is going to pull covers to stare at the timing belt.
Especially for one of those free inspections. Those are supposed to be visual only, no (or minimal) tools involved.

Here is the typical scenario that really happens in many shops:

The tech recommends the T-Belt service based on lack of records, and time/mileage. (usually 7 years or 100,000 miles on those?)
We have no way of knowing if it was actually done.
We expect the cars owner to have kept track of maintenance records.
You should know if and when it was done.
Aaaahhh:I'll assume this is true for now....
Next timing belt is going to be due at around 180-220k or 7 years from the last one. Depends on how you want to play it. Some people liked to do them every 60k, some run to 100k.
Read your owners manual for more info about maintenance.

Timing belts are critical on Honda engines. Catastrophic engine damage happens when one breaks.



So anyway....
We write the recommendation on the work order. I might phrase it as a question when I don't have any records and the owner isn't a regular customer.

I expect the service advisor to ASK (not tell you BS and make stuff up).

The advisor might tell you what he thinks will get you to part with your money. Some like scare tactics to make sales.
I personally hate that, but some people can't understand any other way.

I have no way of knowing if that is what actually happened in your case. I'm guessing though. For all I know, the tech could have written the story as you told it.


To actually take covers off and look. The top cover at the minimum to see it.
Once a belt has been in service for a minute, nobody can tell by looking how old it may be. We can only guess. At some point (shortly before it is too late), the belts actually show visible wear that is obvious.


HTH

mikey1

they did not inspect the belt, and inspecting the belt would be useless anyway,

a timing belt does not show signs of wear, that is why you can only go by mileage or number of years, as to when to change it,

my guess is yours HAS BEEN CHANGED, if it was not it would have snapped by 154,000 miles,

Darcane

Thanks, both of you. That's pretty much what I was thinking too, but wanted confirmation.

I had planned on doing the timing belt myself when I swap the tranny, but was hoping to not have to do it immediately.

Which brings up a couple more points. Tire pressure was supposedly adjusted to 32psi on all tires. I checked and the one with a slow leak was at 16psi. The accessory belts were marked as being "good" even though one is completely missing (power steering). And the noisy transmission (bad input shaft bearing) wasn't noted as being an issue. So, I didn't exactly put a lot of faith in the inspection anyways.

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

They really cant tell, and neither can you, its a matter of how lucky you feel.

ezone

Exactly how much did you pay for this free inspection?

What do you think we (techs) get paid to do that free inspection?

Now think about that before answering this here:
What do you think really happens during that free inspection (and why)?



I might elaborate more on this later.

dem0nk1d

the only way someone could possibly tell is to pull the valve cover and a ton of other stuff off to get to the t-belt. i must say the 2001-2004 d17X engine is the worst motor from honda i've ever touched. Older engines it would take me a few minuets to pull the plug wires, 4 bolts for the valve cover and your pretty much done.

i have like the fact that a company tries to change direction to improve things, but man total fail on this car. Plus my california civic, was made in three countries. Mexico, Canada, USA... oh and i forgot engine bay harness says it's made in China. So that's four places..

Darcane

Yeah, it was free and I wasn't expecting much. However, I don't expect to be lied to (not by the tech, I spoke with the service manager).

On the other hand, the point of the inspection is to get more business by the service center, so I was a little surprised that the obvious problem of the tranny noise was not mentioned, especially since it's an expensive repair.

anibis

It is not uncommon for these timing belts to last much, much longer than the 110k recommended interval.

After 1000 miles or so it's nearly impossible to tell if the belt has been changed, it will look the same as a belt with 100k+ on it.

You may get lucky (or not) and see there is an aftermarket belt on and that would tell you it's been changed.

dem0nk1d

Autozone T-Belt for the d17a1 was a whole 13 bucks out the door.

mikey1

doesnt that tell you something about the quality of it? or maybe i should say lack of it? for an extra 10-15 bucks i would go OEM on the belt, saving 10-15 bucks is not worth the gamble when the entire head and valves are at stake

ezone

I said I might elaborate on my other post, but right now I don't feel like it ranting much.



HEY you bought the Zone belt, what brand was stamped on it?

Not sure I trust the "thrifty" parts house.

mikey1

yes i realize the belt does not snap when you hit 110,001

i could see a timing belt going 120,000 or possibly 130,000 but not 150,000+....no way, no how

ezone

A warranty claims adjuster came in driving a Ridgeline with 225K+ miles on the original timing belt.
Said if it breaks on him, his warranty company will cover it. He didn't seem worried one iota about all the damage that will happen when it lets go.

dem0nk1d

im glad you asked about the vato zone belt.. autozone timing belts which are made by dayco, which makes belts for the OEM..



Example of the Gates Racing belt. So if you skeptical about brand names, this is suppose to be a top notch belt and check it out.

ezone

SOME OEM's. Not necessarily Honda. I can't prove that though.


Back in Feb. I looked on the parts shelves: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/p...06-post25.html

04 Honda Civic

iTrader: (2)

Not 100% true.

Its possible for belts to let go before there time (Hyundai is a fine expample of this) Also some people drive 200,000 or more on the same belt.

Again, its a matter of how lucky you feel.
Me....Im not much of a gambler, changed mine at 80k..will probably do it again around 160k-180k..

ezone

Daewoo was too. If it didn't snap just before the 60k warranty was up, it snapped at 60,001. They sure didn't seem to last to 70k. Daewoos bent valves. The owners couldn't afford to keep them maintained, and the owners couldn't afford to fix them after the belt broke.



In other news, Hyundai = Kia.