Rep Power: 183

I'm looking for a oil pressure tester to check the oil pressure in my engine and I want to make sure I buy one that has the right adapter.
Anyone knows what adapters fits in the oil pressure switch hole?

Here's the list of adapters included with the product I'm looking at:

Pipe nipple 2" Long 1/8 NPT male
Coupling 1/8 FNPT
Street elbow 1/8Mx1/8F
Hex nipple 1/8Mx1/4M
Hex bushing 1/4Mx1/8F NPT
Hex bushing 3/8Mx1/8F NPT
Transaxle fitting Male M8x1.0 taper - Female 1/8-27 NPT
Japanese transaxle fitting - Male R1/8-28 BSPT Taper, Female 1/8-27 NPT
European transaxle fitting Male M10x1.0 taper, Female 1/8-27 NPT

Thanks.

 
Rep Power: 183

Anybody, anyone? -_-

 
Rep Power: 518

Going off of memory here: Most use a regular 1/8" NPT on the sender by the oil pump/filter.

That sounds like a pretty complete kit, SOMEthing will fit.

Pull your sender out and compare threads BEFORE trying to screw in something wrong.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

Thanks for replying.yo
Are you really sure about the adapter?
Also, how are you supposed to know that?
Did you refer yourself to some manuals or something?

Is there any way to buy an adapter individually in case it is not included in the kit?

Thanks

 
Rep Power: 518

Thanks for replying.yo

YW. Yo.

Are you really sure about the adapter?

Sure about what? That the one you need will be in the kit?


Also, how are you supposed to know that?

Just a wildass guess.



Did you refer yourself to some manuals or something?

I've seen plenty of them in my day. Most (not all) use a VERY common thread size.
The one I was thinking of fits MANY years and engines on various Hondas....
Will it fit yours? NO effin clue, you didn't post what your car is (7th gen, I assume?) or which place and why you want to check pressure.

I actually just looked at a brand new one on the shelf in the parts department. It is what I said it is.
I only looked at one possibility, based on an assumption I made.

Is there any way to buy an adapter individually in case it is not included in the kit?

Probably. See your Snap-On dealer.
You DID buy a Snap-On gauge set, right?
No matter, the adapter (that I assumed you need) is one of the sizes you listed.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

Haha, as you can see, I have lots of questions.
Thanks for replying to all of them, I appreciate it.
I intend on checking the oil pressure on my Honda Civic 2004 DX in order to diagnose a bottom-end noise in the engine, I have been told that it could be a bearing issue. The location where I want to plug the oil pressure tester is at the oil pressure switch (of course, I would have to remove it to do so).

Sorry, English isn't my first language, what do you mean by "Snap-on"?
What I intend to buy is this:
http://atdtools.com/5550
It's about 30$ on ebay. Worth a try.

Thanks again.

 
Rep Power: 518

An experienced ear can tell if the engine is garbage in a matter of seconds, without a gauge. I have picked them out here from people posting their video.

If it needs bearings, it is cheaper to drop a good used engine in it. Used can be bought for far cheaper than rebuilding one.


Snap On is a brand of higher quality professional tools, they use route salesmen in trucks that come right to the mechanics' shops to vend their wares. http://www.snapon.com/
Weekly service at the shop door, lifetime guarantee on a lot of the tools, and prices that make you expect to wear a 3 piece suit for (high prices).

HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

To my ear, the engine does not seem healthy at all. But like most inexperienced people would do, I'm trying to gather evidences and the oil pressure is, from what I've heard, a very good way to know if an engine is healthy or not.

I've posted a video somewhere in this forum, here's the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlY6uROQ8uI

It might not sound obvious to some, but to me, especially when I drive it, it feels like crap. Now that summer is coming, it's even worse, it doesn't seem to like heat.

About the Snap-On products, are you suggesting me to buy those?
I'm not working in shop or whatever, just a week-end mechanic on his own car.

 
Rep Power: 518

Save the $30 from the oil pressure gauge.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but.....

That engine is trash.

It has at least one rod bearing wiped out. Very obvious after the point where you say it is warmed up.

If you want to narrow it down to one cylinder, take the lid off of the wires on top of the valve cover.
Warm it up and get it to where it knocks easily. (Use your hand on the throttle from the engine compartment,)
Make it knock and hold it there at that speed.
Disconnect one coil connector (this kills that cylinder), now see if the knock is lessened. Reconnect the wire to the coil. (you could use the injector wiring instead, if it is easier to reach)
Repeat to check every cylinder.
ONE of them will make the noise get either quieter or change significantly. (That will be the worst one.)
Does not matter, the complete engine needs torn down if you were to attempt to fix it. I recommend replace it with a used low-mile engine.

Meanwhile: Save your coins for another engine.



Snap On? I didn't mean you need to buy that, that brand is one that is common at shops. It is not what most "one time users" will ever need.






Googled: how to diagnose a rod bearing noise

Reading material. Some does not apply to your car. Some does. http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...gnosis-and-FAQ

HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

Wow! I'm impressed!
You're probably the only guy who seems to be totally sure about the noise.
I hate it when people say it is either normal or not that bad when I know how bad it really is by driving it.

Too late, I just bought it, for future usage. I'm probably going to use it on the new engine, if I ever find one, after I swap it in. Also, it's cool when you got yourself the right tools around you whenever you need them.

I had exactly when you said in mind. I intend on doing that by disconnecting each injector plug one by one since I don't want to risk flooding this engine with fuel. I'm still driving the car.

By the way, do you have the same civic generation? Just curious to know if you were actually comparing the engine to yours or you just knew it by experience.

I posted the video somewhere in one of my thread, but nobody watched it here. I had to go in some other forums but nobody really was sure about the noise, or maybe they didn't want to jump to conclusions. They insisted that I should gather evidences.

Thanks for everything.

 
Rep Power: 518

Wow! I'm impressed!
You're probably the only guy who seems to be totally sure about the noise.

I could be only a little bit more positive if I was there to hear it myself.
That engine ain't right, and it won't heal by itself.

I hate it when people say it is either normal or not that bad when I know how bad it really is by driving it.

I could speculate all day long from the comfort of my Lazy Boy recliner, just like everyone else.


Also, it's cool when you got yourself the right tools around you whenever you need them.

I have spent most of my life collecting tools. I'm a junkie.


I had exactly when you said in mind. I intend on doing that by disconnecting each injector plug one by one since I don't want to risk flooding this engine with fuel.

It's a little late to worry about that now.
On second thought, do it your way. The catalytic converter probably isn't trashed yet. You will need it.
I disconnect coils, but I don't mess around and let the cat get damaged by what I do. My test lasts a matter of seconds, not minutes.

I'm still driving the car.

Not for long. That engine will become ventilated very soon (meaning it is very likely to scatter internal parts all over the road, at the worst possible time, leaving you walking). Bearings get worse rapidly.

By the way, do you have the same civic generation? Just curious to know if you were actually comparing the engine to yours or you just knew it by experience.

I've heard one or two trashed engines in my time. LOL
I've been a professional tech for something like 28 years now (??? I ran out of fingers and toes to count on.)
I have several more years than that in experience.

The only Honda in my personal fleet is a 2012 Civic. Click my handle, you can find what else I still own under "garage".

I posted the video somewhere in one of my thread, but nobody watched it here. I had to go in some other forums but nobody really was sure about the noise, or maybe they didn't want to jump to conclusions. They insisted that I should gather evidences.

Sorry, I don't recall seeing the post.

Thanks for everything.

YW.HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

Haha, seriously, I really like the way you reply to my posts, do you always reply that way?

I know nobody can't be 100% sure. That's the reason why I'm going to measure the oil pressure and probably do the power balance test too. I prefer the injector plug disconnecting method since I prefer to take my time doing it.

You might be right, it's been almost a year since I have the car. The noise didn't get worse, but in terms of power, the engine really feels crappier than it was. That's why I'm making sure it's an internal problem in order to swap it for another good used low mileage engine.

The two trashed engines you heard, were they the same gen. as mine?
I've looked at the link you've posted and my problem is exactly the same as described here:
"Rod knocks are loudest at higher speeds (over 2500 RPM) Feathering the gas pedal may result in a distinctive back rattle between 2500 and 3500 RPMs."
I can't hear it below 2000 RPM and above 3000 RPM, at least less distinctively, and not when the engine is cold or when it has just been started.

My old thread was "Valve noise/Power loss as the car reaches its operating temperature." and the video wasn't posted on the first post but later on.

Thanks again.

 
Rep Power: 518

Haha, seriously, I really like the way you reply to my posts, do you always reply that way?

Depends on my mood.
You should have seen what I wrote during the first 2 weeks after I stopped smoking. I was an axxhole.


I know nobody can't be 100% sure.

I can be sure enough to know the engine has to come out and apart...
And with no more than an ear to listen.
The repair costs for each of the two likely choices can be evaluated at this point, without getting dirty.
The choices are
A) pull it out and repair it, then reinstall it.
B) pull it out and replace it with another.
Replacement is almost always cheaper than repairing the old engine the proper way.



That's the reason why I'm going to measure the oil pressure and probably do the power balance test too. I prefer the injector plug disconnecting method since I prefer to take my time doing it.

The only test that matters is seeing which cylinder makes the biggest difference in the noise. The engine has to come out.

Oil pressure test is irrelevant. The engine has to come out.
(If you do the test, do it with the engine hot and while it is knocking. Hopefully the gauge needle will flick violently in time with the knock.)

Power balance test is irrelevant. The engine has to come out.
(It is losing power due to mechanical inefficiency and ignition timing retard because of the knock sensor controls on the ignition.)

You are cancelling individual cylinders ONLY to find which one makes a difference in the noise.
If you really want to know what the source of the loud knock noise is, you can remove the oil pan and inspect rod bearing journals. One should have a whole bunch of slop (it will be the one that made the biggest difference in the noise during the steps above).

I know how much money and work is involved in repairing a trashed engine, and what it is worth to simply replace it. The biggest variable will be the cost of a used engine, they can be bought for $500 and under at some places.
The cheaper, easiest, and fastest method is simple replacement.


The two trashed engines you heard, were they the same gen. as mine?

I forgot you said English isn't your first language.
The reply was sarcastic, not to be taken literally.

I have dealt with hundreds of engine jobs. Everything from small lawnmower type engines to an engine from a home built airplane.
I have dealt with far more than Hondas in my career.
A bunch of cars of many brands, and with different types of engines.
Varying amounts of damage.

Some start as bearing damage that got neglected and ignored.
Some got damaged from overheating. It is usually pretty easy to find the cause of this damage.

Bearing problems aren't always so easy to find the cause of.
What causes bearing damage? Usually neglect and carelessness, followed by, maybe, ignorance.

I actually hate that sort of work, I'm too meticulous to be super fast at it. My specialty is electrical/electronics/driveability.

and not when the engine is cold or when it has just been started.

The noise was there, just not nearly as loud as when the engine was warmed up.
I heard a lot of valvetrain noise too. That's irrelevant now though.

The oil "thins out" as it gets hot, and oil pressure drops accordingly, therefore it has less "cushion" to mask the noises when it is hot.


My old thread was "Valve noise/Power loss as the car reaches its operating temperature." and the video wasn't posted on the first post but later on.

I see the date on that thread. I wasn't a member here at that time.

 
Rep Power: 183

Haha, what happens when you stop smoking? You start writing a novel?

About the engine, I'm sure going to go with the second alternative, which is replacing it with another engine, a low mileage one. But tell me, what is, from your point of view, a low mileage engine? 100k miles and below? 60k miles and below?
Also, do you have any advice to how to buy a used engine, how to choose one and where to go? Should I ask for any test that have been done on the engine before pulling it out of the car? Such as compression test, oil pressure, vacuum test. Do these tests do justice to the overall health and performance of the engine?

I have found one big scrap yard locally that recycles old vehicles by selling parts and they do sell the engine I'm looking for. The thing is they don't do any of these tests, they only start the engine, warm it up, rev it and look & hear for any noise, leak, smoke, then drain all the fluid before I guess.. storing it. It's not any scrap yard, apparently it has been recognized by Ebay, which means they have a good business running.
Here's a link to one of their engine for sale: http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-...71985714706479

About the test I'm about to do on my own engine, it's just for my own peace of mind, it's not that I don't trust you, but I like to be 100% sure by coming to a conclusion. You also said you would be more positive if you were actually hearing the engine right in front of you.
I know the engine has to be pulled out. It is just for peace of mind before making any other decision. I might also bring my car to a mechanic, not sure if he might knows any better but we'll see.

Back to bearing problems, is it possible that bearings can be worn out even though they don't make any noise yet? Because I remember I test drove one vehicle, the same as mine, and the engine was super smooth, very quiet, no noise, but there was less power than mine, no torque, no pull whatsoever. I'm wondering if that might be the case too with engines from scrap yard that haven't been tested properly.

The valve train noise you mentioned, do you think it is due to wear or might it be due to excessive valve clearance? Because I did the valve adjustment, and the engine seemed to be a bit smoother afterward. From that I can assume I didn't do anything wrong but instead improve a bit the engine overall behavior. Do think it might be an internal problem? It might be useless to ask this but I'm just curious.

As you can see, I have lots of question to ask and I don't hold back since this is a rare opportunity for me to have these question answered and to learn. I apologize if this might seem as if I'm imposing all this on you. I'm not.

Once again, I'm not taking anything for granted.
Thank you for everything. I appreciate it.

 
Rep Power: 518

Haha, what happens when you stop smoking? You start writing a novel?

Tolerance for stupid idiots went waaaay down, and God was testing me..... I'm REAL surprised I still have a job after that.

As you can see, I have lots of question to ask and I don't hold back since this is a rare opportunity for me to have these question answered and to learn. I apologize if this might seem as if I'm imposing all this on you. I'm not.

Um, ok. I'll just need all of the important numbers off of your major credit cards.



About the engine, I'm sure going to go with the second alternative, which is replacing it with another engine, a low mileage one. But tell me, what is, from your point of view, a low mileage engine? 100k miles and below? 60k miles and below?

Depends on the situation, and the amount of money expected to be involved.

Most people will want an engine with fewer miles than the car body has.

You would not want to put an engine that has a quarter million miles into a car that only has 30,000 miles, correct?



IMO:
All physical testing that can be done to the parts you are buying is important.
Best thing would be to check out a sellers reputation and the written warranty they give on the items they sell. ("Seller" in this case is ANY place selling you their parts, not just an ebay seller.)

A seller (most legitimate businesses, anyway) relies on repeat business, so it is in their best interest to have happy customers, correct?
This is true in almost any business.
DO YOUR RESEARCH!
Some are only in business to make a killing in a short time and get out fast, leave you hanging.
You want to buy from someone that has a reputation for selling reliable stuff, not garbage that causes more problems.
IF there is a problem with the parts you bought, you want it taken care of with a minimum of hassle (the warranty). A typical warranty on used parts may be 30 days or 1000 miles, for example. Some offer a longer time period or mileage. Some charge you more for a longer warranty. 30/60/90 days, 6 months, or a year.
A warranty will likely only cover obtaining a replacement for the bad part itself, not the labor to replace the part.Think about that for a minute.

Parts warranty is separate from a labor warranty. Research.
If you are not doing the work yourself, you had better do your research about what warranty is offered by the shop that does the work.

If you brought me a used engine that you obtained on your own, my only warranty would be that it will not fall out on the ground if I install it. If the engine you supplied has problems, you now own all of the problems. There will be more charges to have me solve them for you.
Most shops like to get the parts themselves, that way they have some control over the situation from start to finish. I know I don't want to install junk for you, and I know the reputation (what to expect) of the sources we deal with regularly .

For something large and heavy like an engine, a somewhat local source may be better because of the shipping costs. You would have to do your own research on this, each part and place can be different.
Example:
There is a salvage yard 2 hours away from me that makes regular deliveries with their own trucks. We use that place a lot, shipping charges are minimal. If we had to ship their parts some other way (semi truck, or UPS, whatever), the cost would be much higher to obtain their parts.
Local yards here don't have much of what we use, and the quality isn't always great. They also seem to crush anything older than 10 years. I couldn't get headlights and a grille for my 90 Buick after a semi backed into it. I found what I needed with http://www.car-part.com/ Reasonable price, only one state away, shipped UPS in 2 days.

You can check around this site, many people and businesses use it. Select your car and part, see who may have it. Sort by location or price, etc.
http://www.car-part.com/

If you have a used engine on the floor of the garage and waiting to get installed, this is the time to service it while everything is easy to reach. Timing belt, water pump, tensioner pulley. Rubber seals and gaskets. Maybe a head gasket (I would if it has 60k or more, just because it is far easier to do with it out of the car, and the labor costs me nothing since I do it myself). What gets serviced may depend on the miles, but the timing belt should be done without question if there is no record of it ever being done before on the used engine. The time span is only 7 years on the timing belt so IMO it gets replaced.
If the timing belt breaks for any reason, the engine bends valves. Huge headache that could have been easily avoided.





You might also consider a rebuilt engine from a source like Jasper.
http://www.jasperengines.com/index.php
Check into their warranty. If you travel the country, a warranty that gives coverage nationwide might give some peace of mind.


Also, do you have any advice to how to buy a used engine, how to choose one and where to go? Should I ask for any test that have been done on the engine before pulling it out of the car? Such as compression test, oil pressure, vacuum test. Do these tests do justice to the overall health and performance of the engine?

Obviously you want the best opportunity to get an engine that can last the rest of the cars life.
There is not really any easy way to tell how much care a previous owner took of the car/engine, and the people at the salvage yards certainly aren't going to know anything about history of the car or the engine they removed from it.
Some of the common checks they can make are
A) Does it run
B) Does it run well
C) are there unusual noises or smoking
(assuming the engine can run at all, depends on the condition of the car when it gets to the salvage yard.)
D) is there sludge visible inside the oiled areas (regular oil changes done)
E) Compression test.
That is the easy stuff I can think of at the moment.
There is no way that any or all of these tests can catch all possible problems.
This is why you should only want to deal with a place that gives a written warranty.

Example: When your engine (all 7th gens) blows a head gasket, they usually leak very slowly at the onset. They will pass all of the above tests. It may take a while for the issue to show up after the engine is installed, maybe longer than the 30 day warranty period. Maybe longer if the owner of the car has no clue, and severe damage might result if the owner doesn't recognize any of the warning signs.



I have found one big scrap yard locally that recycles old vehicles by selling parts and they do sell the engine I'm looking for.

Scrapyard, wrecking yard, salvage yard, recycler, junkyard, and more, are all the exact same operations. Disassemble cars and sell the parts.


The thing is they don't do any of these tests, they only start the engine, warm it up, rev it and look & hear for any noise, leak, smoke,

See above

then drain all the fluid before I guess.. storing it.

It's not any scrap yard,

See above

apparently it has been recognized by Ebay,

Means nothing. Everyone can sell there.

which means they have a good business running.

I didn't check their feedback as an ebay seller. That would be somewhat important.

Here's a link to one of their engine for sale: http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-02-03-04-...71985714706479

Gee, I hope nobody was hurt in that wreck.

I doubt the salvage yard would be able to run that particular engine for more than one or two minutes, if it runs at all. That looks like the radiator should not be able to hold water at all.
Something else to be aware of: In a wreck like that in the pictures, if the exhaust manifold was hit hard in the crash, I have heard it can actually cause head gasket failure by forcing the cylinder head to shift its position rearward on the engine.




About the test I'm about to do on my own engine, it's just for my own peace of mind, it's not that I don't trust you, but I like to be 100% sure by coming to a conclusion.

That's fine.
Note: If it passes a test, that does not necessarily mean all is well. It means that it passed the test you ran. You may need other methods to evaluate the problem. (experienced ear)

You also said you would be more positive if you were actually hearing the engine right in front of you.

Right. Hearing your recording of the problem on this laptop is not quite like hearing it in person. Also have to filter out other noises picked up in the recording.


I know the engine has to be pulled out. It is just for peace of mind before making any other decision.

The oil pan could be removed to inspect the rod bearings without removing the engine from the car.
But once you verify the bearing damage that was suspected, the engine will be coming out anyway.


I might also bring my car to a mechanic, not sure if he might knows any better but we'll see.

ANY mechanic worth a darn (meaning "with plenty of experience") will know that it needs an engine in less than 30 seconds.
Narrowing it down to one offending cylinder will take a little more time, and if you are a paying customer you can expect the car to be in the shop for an hour before getting an answer.

Back to bearing problems, is it possible that bearings can be worn out even though they don't make any noise yet?

Irrelevant at this point on your engine.
The answer would be yes, but each situation, condition, reason, and cause can be different.


Because I remember I test drove one vehicle, the same as mine, and the engine was super smooth, very quiet, no noise, but there was less power than mine, no torque, no pull whatsoever.

Exact same? You positive?
Different engines for different cars and different years.
The same body style was used for 5 years in a row.
A transmission problem might be a reason one car doesn't have good acceleration.
Timing belt assembled wrong by one tooth can make the engine run poorly.
Too many variables to answer, question too vague.



I'm wondering if that might be the case too with engines from scrap yard that haven't been tested properly.

The valve train noise you mentioned, do you think it is due to wear or might it be due to excessive valve clearance? Because I did the valve adjustment, and the engine seemed to be a bit smoother afterward.
Difficult to tell which noises are which.
KNOWING there is a "lower end" bearing problem, all other noises are no longer as important. Bearing damage problems normally send metal debris (the bearings are soft metal such as tin-aluminum-bronze, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_%28metal%29) all throughout the entire engine lubrication system, so there will be bearing material in the camshaft journal oil/lubrication passages too.
Could be oil passages blocked with metal debris causing the cam journals to starve for lubrication. Could be wear in the rocker arms and shafts, due to loss of oil lubrication. Doesn't matter, it would be addressed by replacing the (complete) engine.


From that I can assume I didn't do anything wrong but instead improve a bit the engine overall behavior.

If the engine had this knock this entire time you have owned it.....then adjusting the valves is an exercise in futility. (I hope you didn't have much money involved in that.)


Do think it might be an internal problem? It might be useless to ask this but I'm just curious.

Bearings are internal, so yes.

Once again, I'm not taking anything for granted.
Thank you for everything. I appreciate it.

YW. Yo.
Did I answer all of them?
Holy poop, this is a long post. Too much to proofread.

 
Rep Power: 293

That was a good read. Props ezone.

 
Rep Power: 183

Definitely props to ezone!

 
Rep Power: 183

** I have "bolded" all the necessary info You can ignore the rest.**

Haha damn, that WAS a long post! I didn't expect you to answer to every single sentence of mine! How much do I owe you now? I'll try to be more specific from now on.

First of all, I need to point out that all the work done on the car was done at home, by myself and with some help too. So there hasn't been money involved in labor. So don't worry !
Yes indeed, the noise was there since I own the car and I had some hopes that it could be solved by doing a valve lash adjustment, but no luck.

So yeah, for the engine swap, it's going to be done at home too, so labor cost isn't involved, the real challenge is finding a good engine. I don't want to swap in an engine and discover afterward that the engine is crap even if money isn't involved in labor, it's still going to be hassle.

About the scrap yard I mentioned, actually it's a recycler that has been in business since 1942, I think that's something, and it's one if not the biggest in Quebec (Province where I live) and you know what? It's the website http://www.car-part.com/ that lead me to them when searching for a engine. It's the same business that is recognized by Ebay. They seemed to be honest that people want to give good services. I ask them questions on ebay and they answered right away to every single of them. Here's their website:
http://www.lecavalier.com/cmsInclude...e=about04.html

The only thing that worries me it what you said about the radiator and the exhaust being crushed in the listing picture I showed you. You may be right, how could they have ran the engine long enough to determine if the engine was healthy. But still, why would a company like that would sell that engine if it wasn't working properly? They have a 90 days warranty for the long block. I think it's also possible to have an extended warranty of 1 to 2 years. If that engine isn't good, I think it doesn't matter too much since they have a whole lot of them. When searching through their inventory on ebay, there was at least 10-15 engines like that one, that would fit my car. (D17A1)

Speaking of warranty, what do you mean by "written warranty", a warranty written on their website, is that one? Or is it one that is written on the invoice/receipt when you buy the engine?
When searching in their website, I see
90 days warranty, 1/2 year(s) warranty and 30/180 days commercial warranty.
What does commercial warranty mean, what are the differences with a "normal" warranty?
Here's the link: http://www.lecavalier.com/lecavalier/searchCatalog.do

About the tests they do on the engine, it seems based on what I was told from them that they do most of them (A to D), except for compression test.
Message from seller:
------------------------------
Dear customer

no we never do such test. We start all the engine we get them to opearating temperature, we rev the engine and made sure there no leak, smoke or weird sound. We then removed the engine and get it cleaned, inspected and drained of all the fluids and we make sure again there is nothing wrong with the engine.

Thank you
-----------------------------------------
How does it sound to you?

I checked their feedbacks and it seems they really have a good reputation (99.4%/2192 feed backs).

I even contacted the people who bought the same engine from them and they left very good feedback.
------------------------
Buyer #1:

yes engine raning good no problems
this is a good company


Buyer #2:
Hi- my ex boyfriend actually bought it using my Ebay account. as far as i know it worked out great.
---------------------------------------
As you can see, I did my homework. Just needed to know more from a more experienced person.

I have checked Jasper and they seemed to be a proud reliable company, but the reason I'm looking for a used engine is because it way cheaper than a rebuild engine. I know a rebuild may be a safer bet, but I don't want to invest too much in that car, especially if I can have something equivalent from a recycler/scap yard. But thanks, it's a company that I'll keep in mine for the future, unless it's mandatory that I buy rebuild engines.

This is less important, you can answer but not an absolute need:
About the Civic I test drove, yes, it's the exact same engine. The car was a Honda Civic 2003 LX, same engine D17A1, only EX/ Si Canadians model have a VTEC engine. My car is a Honda Civic 2004 DX. Also one thing about the car I test drove was that the engine was running low on oil, right on the LOW mark. The car could be driven, but considering the smoothness and quietness of the engine, I was expecting more. That car had less torque/power than mine. Even if mine is irregular, it's peppy from time to time. Both car are manuals.

Questions about swapping an engine. After doing some research, it does not seem all that hard, all you need is time and patience and good ressources (internet, manuals, DIY guide). I even found a service and repair manual for Civic 7th on this same forum. Inside, I found sections that cover from Removal of the engine to Installation of the engine.
I even have an engine crane ready for the job.
The question is, do you think it will be a "doable" job for a first timer like me even with all the necessary tools and resources? I'm pretty well equipped, not as much as you(air tools, etc), but I have the necessary. On a second thought, I think I know the answer, you won't know until you try. Instead, do you have any tip, suggestion, advice as an experience mechanic? Also, what is the best way to remove an engine? From below or with a hoist/crane?

Once again, I know I've said many times but really, thank you.
I'm sure If I ask all these questions at a shop, he'll just turn around saying: I'm too busy sorry. But you! Doing this only to help others!
I really appreciate this, I don't know how I can thank you otherwise.
Do you have a paypal account? I could send you money Haha .

 
Rep Power: 518

EDIT: Somewhere in here, I was going to mention that I didn't realize you were in Canada.



First of all, I need to point out that all the work done on the car was done at home, by myself and with some help too. So there hasn't been money involved in labor. So don't worry !

Ok so you ain't scared of a little grease.
+1.


About the scrap yard I mentioned, actually it's a recycler that has been in business since 1942, I think that's something, and it's one if not the biggest in Quebec (Province where I live)

Sounds like a reputable company that knows how to keep a business running.
+1.



The only thing that worries me it what you said about the radiator and the exhaust being crushed in the listing picture I showed you. You may be right, how could they have ran the engine long enough to determine if the engine was healthy. But still, why would a company like that would sell that engine if it wasn't working properly?

There is a certain amount of "risk/reward" that goes with the business of selling used parts.

Most are good, a few will inevitably be bad.

You buy it cheap and take a risk of having it be a bad one. Then you do the job all over again if it does turn out to be bad.
If it turns out to be good, you got the reward of a good, cheap engine.

Similar deal for the seller: If this engine turns out to be not so good, they have 15 more ready to sell --or give for a replacement to honor the warranty. They probably don't pay for labor on a warranty claim, so no huge loss for them.





They have a 90 days warranty for the long block.

Just so you know, that is the engine block and cylinder head, or everything between the oil pan and the valve cover.
Manifolds are not part of the long block.


I think it's also possible to have an extended warranty of 1 to 2 years. If that engine isn't good, I think it doesn't matter too much since they have a whole lot of them. When searching through their inventory on ebay, there was at least 10-15 engines like that one, that would fit my car. (D17A1)

Already addressed above?


Speaking of warranty, what do you mean by "written warranty", a warranty written on their website, is that one?

Yes.

Or is it one that is written on the invoice/receipt when you buy the engine?

Yes.

An oral statement isn't worth squat, zero documentation.
Written policy is always better.

When searching in their website, I see
90 days warranty, 1/2 year(s) warranty and 30/180 days commercial warranty.
What does commercial warranty mean, what are the differences with a "normal" warranty?

Ok this looks self explanatory to me.
http://www.lecavalier.com/cmsInclude...rketing02.html

Normal warranty is for the average consumer or installer.

Commercial use can mean almost anything that isn't an ordinary commuter, grocery getter, or pleasure use by the average family and homeowner.

Vehicles used for business, Livery, delivery, Post office, work trucks, etc. are commercial.
Vehicles that are used to generate revenue are commercial.

Make sense?
Shoot them an email and ask. I'm just guessing here.





except for compression test.

Odd at first thought, but okay.
I could understand some engines couldn't be easily tested due to the amount of work involved on some engine designs. If they do that test to one engine, they would be expected to do it to all of their engines, and that can eat up a lot of valuable time.
Probably a lot of variables that could lead to results that APPEAR bad on perfectly healthy engines, too.

A trained ear can quickly evaluate relative compression merely by cranking the starter. It is easy to hear a single cylinder with no or extremely weak compression if you know what you are hearing.
But that's about as accurate as I can get without actually doing the real tests with actual tools.
(Only a few of us have the "trained ear", I know many people that have been doing this for 20+ years that never got past the first years' worth of experience accumulation.)

If I hear that, I know I probably need to do the real test to go any further.
If the starter action sounds "right" and the engine runs "right", compression test moves to the bottom of my list.
If there are misfire codes, a real compression test may come back into play.
Dealing with the exact same cars every day gives me an advantage in many areas too.

We then removed the engine and get it cleaned, inspected and drained of all the fluids and we make sure again there is nothing wrong with the engine.

Thank you
-----------------------------------------
How does it sound to you?

Good,
The only thing I (as a professional tech) don't care for is them cleaning the engine. I want to know about any evidence of problems or leaks. Cleaning removes evidence.
I'd rather know about leaks while the engine is out and easy to fix.

I checked their feedbacks and it seems they really have a good reputation (99.4%/2192 feed backs).

I even contacted the people who bought the same engine from them and they left very good feedback.
------------------------

All good.

unless it's mandatory that I buy rebuild engines.

Oh it is not mandatory here, that is why salvage yards thrive.


That car had less torque/power than mine. Even if mine is irregular, it's peppy from time to time. Both car are manuals.

No good answer here. Maybe the other car had problems.

One question about swapping an engine.
all you need is time and patience and good ressources (internet, manuals, DIY guide).

True. And some sort of mechanical ability is a plus.
Most people can figure out how to remove a bolt (eventually).
Only half of them can put it back.
Only half of those can put it back correctly.
Only half of those can get it right 2 weeks after taking it apart.
See where this is going?

An extra person with some experience helps too. Extra eyes and hands while removing the engine and installing it. There are always a few things you forget to disconnect before trying to pick it up with the cherry picker (engine crane).
LOL. Seriously.
The times have been very few where I actually got every last wire and hose unhooked before trying to lift the engine out.



I even have an engine crane ready for the job. The question is, do you think it will be a "doable" job for a first timer like me even with all the necessary tools and resources?

Certainly.
I had the engine OUT of my first car within the first week of having my drivers license. I was a broke kid with a broken car. Dad had tools and a driveway. And some mechanical ability.

I'm pretty well equipped, not as much as you(air tools, etc), but I have the necessary.

Air power is handy and fast, but certainly not necessary.

Once again, I know I've said many times but really, thank you.

YW.

I'm sure If I ask all these questions at a shop, he'll just turn around saying: I'm too busy sorry.

If I am busy at work, you had better get the hell out of my way. I am extremely focused when I am in the middle of a job, even though to the average outsider it may look like I'm on a coffee break the entire time. If I get interrupted, I might have to start over. (I could leave important bolts or wires loose if I get interrupted.)


But you! Doing this only to help others!

It's a sick obsession.

I really appreciate this, I don't know how I can thank you otherwise.
Do you have a paypal account?

Actually, no. I don't buy or sell on the internet.
I'm a pack rat.
Right now I can't walk through my living room.
Really.
There is a bedroom set piled in the middle of it.
Been there for about a month now.

You may see me on an episode of "Hoarders".

I sold a keyless kit to someone on here not too long ago, had to use a regular paper check and bank account.



I could send you money Haha .

Cash, American Dollars please.
I have a real PO Box.

 
Rep Power: 183

Hi ezone!
I'm back for more questions! Muahahaha xD That is if you're still here with us in CivicForums.
Thanks again for all the info you've shared with me.
Today I won't be bothering you for too long or too much, just some simple questions.

I haven't done the swap nor did I buy the engine yet. Just taking my time to gather as much info as possible while I can. I'm a perfectionist, I don't like to mess up, maybe too much.

Anyways, the time I have been talking with the company that sold used engine and other parts, they said they didn't have any problem running the engine without the radiator since they have a dedicated "econoline" to run the engine outside of the car. They run the engine for at least 10 to 15 min. What is exactly an econoline? I was wondering if you knew more about it.

Also, I asked them about moisture and rust in the engine and they replied by saying that it isn't a problem since they have heated warehouses to keep the engine dry and warm. Thanks to that, they said they even sold engines that were over 3000 days old. How does that sound to you? Isn't that a bit too much? I can't imagine an engine not running and moving for 3000 days and still be in perfect shape.

About the maintenance to be done while the engine is still out of the car (engine swap). Well I intend to replace the cam and the crankshaft seals on the timing belt side and also the rear main seal too. Perhaps we'll also replace the oil pan gasket but that doesn't seem too hard to do later when the engine will be in the car, is it?
You also mentioned something about the head gasket I think. To be honest, I'm a bit scared of opening the engine and do that especially on an engine that I haven't run yet. If something goes wrong, I won't be able to tell if it's my fault of the engine itself, therefore, that may void the warranty itself.
Is it that hard to replace the head gasket when the engine is in the car?
Also, how does one tell if a head gasket is leaking? By leaking, I meant a small leak, but it is not blown yet. Enough so that coolant will leak into the cylinder chamber. Will a compression test tell me that? I heard that coolant leaking into the block is really bad for the bearings. I want to avoid that at all cost since this cancel the whole purpose of swapping in another engine.

As always thanks ezone and to whoever helps me out.

 
Rep Power: 518

Hi ezone!
I'm back for more questions! Muahahaha xD That is if you're still here with us in CivicForums.


You must not look in here much, I have been pooping on about 1/4 of the threads for a while now.






they have a dedicated "econoline" to run the engine outside of the car. They run the engine for at least 10 to 15 min. What is exactly an econoline? I was wondering if you knew more about it.

F*** if I know.
Ask the junkyard people, it is their machine.
Google?

I'd guess a huge barrel of cold water to connect the cooling system of the engine to, and a 5 gallon gas can with a high pressure pump in it. Doesn't take much more than that to run an engine on a stand.

If the place is high volume, I kinda have my doubts about 15 minutes run time. People are lazy.




Isn't that a bit too much? I can't imagine an engine not running and moving for 3000 days and still be in perfect shape.

It's fine if the engine was prepped right for storage.

BTW, they can SELL anything.
You gotta ask the installer if it survived the storage and ran, and ask the end user how it really is now regarding oil consumption and the like..



About the maintenance to be done while the engine is still out of the car (engine swap). Well I intend to replace the cam and the crankshaft seals on the timing belt side and also the rear main seal too. Perhaps we'll also replace the oil pan gasket but that doesn't seem too hard to do later when the engine will be in the car, is it?
You also mentioned something about the head gasket I think. To be honest, I'm a bit scared of opening the engine and do that especially on an engine that I haven't run yet. If something goes wrong, I won't be able to tell if it's my fault of the engine itself, therefore, that may void the warranty itself.


If they guarantee their parts, then stuff it in and run it.
Deal with problems as you figure them out.




Is it that hard to replace the head gasket when the engine is in the car?

Engine out of the car probably cuts the time needed to do the work in half.
Almost all of the work time for any of the jobs can be halved by having the engine already out of the car.

By leaking, I meant a small leak, but it is not blown yet.

That's like being "a little bit pregnant".
Any problem at all is still a problem.

These don't really "blow" in the manner that most people think of a gasket blowing, because they are MLS type. It takes a serious overheat to warp the head enough to "blow", i.e. have some obvious symptoms that everyone associates with a head gasket. By that time there is more damage than just a gasket.




Enough so that coolant will leak into the cylinder chamber. Will a compression test tell me that?

Short answer is NO.

It all depends on how it is bad. There are probably a dozen different ways a head gasket can fail, and each way merits its own test method. There is no "one size fits all" test.

If something passes a test, that doesn't mean it is good. It only means you didn't pick the right test.

For the most common failure on these engines, I apply shop air pressure to each cylinder and watch the coolant level.
This is definitive for me. The final answer.
It also tells me WHICH cylinder(s) have the problem.

For other failures, I have other tests I can do. All depends on the symptoms presented.


I heard that coolant leaking into the block is really bad for the bearings. I want to avoid that at all cost since this cancel the whole purpose of swapping in another engine.

Coolant mixed with oil is horribly bad for bearings, if the engine is running. Thankfully, it is not a common way for these to fail.


HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

I just went to the garage today and they did confirm that it was a "rod bearing". I guess they meant precisely a connecting rod bearing? If I'm right.
They said I could drive forever with this bearing issue, there is an issue, but not dramatic. It could be true since I've driven the car and have had it for about a year and the problem didn't aggravate itself.

Also, they mention that the power was normal -_-
"It has power! What's wrong with it?"
I don't what kind of cars they drive but the power is crap compared to other same civics I've driven.
I don't believe that an engine can run correctly with a bearing issue, I mean, what's the point of having bearings if it could be driven with bad one?

 
Rep Power: 518

Yes, that would be a connecting rod bearing.

I wouldn't chance driving it "forever".
My luck would have it break down during a trip 400 miles away, or on a Saturday night date with the "perfect woman".

Not sure why "power" is any concern, all 4 cylinders are still firing and contributing power.....

It needs an "engine job" because of the bearing/noise problem. "Engine job" would be whatever it takes to pull out the engine and either fix it or replace it.


Your definitions of "run" and "correctly" must be different than mine.
The engine should sound like a sewing machine, not this:


This one was entertaining too....



HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

By power I meant, it is not producing the amount of power it should.
Sure it has power! The car can move forward, but not the way it should.
The problem is that it lacks power, not that it doesn't have any.

As a mechanic, what would you do about that engine?
Leave it that way because it still produce some amount power?

What I was trying to say about the bearing is that the mechanic I just talked to was talking as if it was okay to leave an engine with a defective bearing as long it doesn't break, although it is already broken.

 
Rep Power: 518

Oh. A while ago you said this, so I guess I didn't understand it:
-----------------------------------------------------------------

It still needs an engine.

This thread is full of my answer to that question.
Fix the engine the correct way, and proper engine power will be restored.

However: If, for example, the car has developed a real transmission problem during the time you have continued to drive it with the damaged engine, then repairing the engine cannot help that particular problem.

The (assuming now) one affected cylinder that is knocking is probably still able to contribute 80% or more of its power, even with the knock. It does require some amount of power to overcome the looseness and vibrations, so there should be some amount of power loss because of that.
The knock, however, should be causing the ignition timing to be severely retarded, causing significant power loss for the entire engine.




If this is the same person that said this above:Then I would say
**EDITED**

Yep, as long as it can move under its own power, then you could keep driving it until it quits completely.

That doesn't sound like the opinion of a professional.
Maybe they don't know what a "good" car should be like.
Maybe they can't hear just how bad it is.
I don't know, but their answer is far different from my answer.
If I could pick the noise out of a video on this crappy laptop, that engine is done.



Does the car have to leave you walking before someone believes that there is a problem? Just how bad does it have to get?
There isn't much else it can do to be more bad (?), other than quit completely or barf its guts all over the pavement.

Maybe some people are perfectly willing to drive something that sounds like that clothes washer with a brick thrown in it.
I don't need that sort of person as a customer, and I don't want to work with that sort of person as a tech. I want to work for and with people that are willing to do what it takes to fix the car.



Exactly what answer were you looking for?

HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

I was expecting an answer like this:
"Yes indeed, it does lack some amount of power. Even though it's just a civic, I've driven many of them and they don't feel or sound like. Despite the underpowered engine, these engine are still very efficient to my knowledge. Sure it runs! You can still drive it if it's just to get you from Point A to B. But Honda engine doesn't run like that if you're someone who wants their car to run properly. I suggest swapping out the engine and replace it or rebuild it. It's up to you."

I intend on replacing the engine myself, probably with some help of course, and I just needed a confirmation from an expert that has driven many cars and surely many civic like mine! I just wanted to know if my engine did have an issue before doing anything to it and realized later that it wasn't the engine, but something external. I wouldn't want that.

I was just disappointed that someone who had that much experience couldn't tell that the engine had something wrong with in terms of power.

I have driven other civics, and the gas pedal is so light and sensitive, the engine revs smoothly and quietly as opposed to mine.

You mentioned something about the transmission, mine is a manual transmission so it's much less complicated. My manual transmission runs without issues, it shifts properly most of the time. Sometimes, at a stop light, it won't engage in first gear unless I re-clutch, or won't go in reverse right away too. But when driving normally, shifting from 1-2-3-4-5, there's no problem, downshifting isn't an issue either.

Were you talking about automatic transmission or can manual one still have problems despite apparently working properly?

As always, thank you.

 
Rep Power: 518

What are you expecting from me?

Oh wait a second.....I know how this is supposed to work:






I already told you repeatedly that it needs an engine, in nearly every post in this thread.
You think I'm going to suddenly change my mind or something?
I wouldn't drive that thing at all, knowing what it sounds like already. I wouldn't want to be obligated to pay for the tow truck when it scatters engine parts all over the road.



If you are talking about me and my opinion, keep in mind that I can't drive your car. I have no idea how it runs, my only clues come from your written words, nothing more.

You already KNOW it doesn't run right.

Yes, I have driven hundreds of 7th gens, and yes, I can tell when something is drastically wrong with the way one runs or drives.....but I still can't drive YOUR CAR.

Yours is broken.
See this line from earlier: I wouldn't even do much to try to figure out why it has low power if it were in the shop, I really don't want that engine to "hatch" while it's in my bay.

Simply put: It knocks, it needs an engine.

End of story.

Not much else can be safely evaluated until this major problem is remedied.

"Safely" in this case means not risking the patient dying during the exam or on the operating table.

Either it gets fixed, or you roll down the road to elsewhere.

If something still isn't right after the engine is fixed, then you re-evaluate at that time.

BTW, anything that makes it low on power is also causing it to be less efficient and less economical at the same time.

Yes, I meant an automatic. I didn't know what trans you have, and I wasn't going to re-read the entire thread at this point to find out. I was just trying to make a point. You have been driving on a trashed engine for a year, lots of other problems could have happened in that time. Just because it has one major problem doesn't mean that more things can't go wrong while the first thing is broke.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 183

First I need to clarify that I wasn't talking about you!
When I said I was expecting something, I was talking about the mechanic that drove my car. I'm disappointed about him!
So much misunderstanding here, I apologize.
Damn, I feel bad that it seemed as if I was blaming you.

I'm not expecting anything from you!
You have already done more than enough!
This was just an update for the community here.
I just wanted to have some input from you.

So yeah, I was disappointed that someone who actually drove my car talked as if it was no big deal that the engine was running that way, as opposed to you, who didn't even get to drive it but could tell something is wrong and needs to be fixed.

As always, thank you for your support and
again sorry!

 
Rep Power: 518

Ok, I understand you now, thanks for clearing that up.
Yes, misunderstanding LOL.
What I read in your post above was apparently not exactly the same as what you heard in your mind when you wrote it...

No worries!

eh?

 
Rep Power: 183

I guess that could be true.
English isn't my first language!
Plus, I read your posts quite fast, I didn't take my time reading your posts recently.

So yeah, I know the engine is condemned, I know it needs to be fixed and I will!
But I've been quite busy and it was just yesterday that I could bring my car in a shop and get it diagnosed.

I'm going to have 2 weeks off school soon and that big job is waiting for me and I needed to make sure that the engine had a defect in it beforehand.
I'm doing to do lots of research to be prepared for almost every "unpredictable factor" (I know it's impossible) by making sure I have all the necessary tools, that I have all the necessary parts such as bolts, gasket, seals, etc.

Indeed, I intend on changing the cam, crank seal, rear main seal, exhaust manifold gasket, intake manifold gasket (maybe), the clutch, the pressure plate, the release bearing.

Wish me luck!