OweninGA

I have a 2013 Civic HF. It has had issues since it was new, but nothing beyond annoyances. (Basically it has this annoying habit of randomly not starting - starts beautifully with an auxiliary booster battery and all the components check good in the starting and charging system when I take them in for testing!) When it pulls this little trick, it sets all sorts of codes that go away as soon as the car is running. Check Brakes, Check ABS, Check Air Bag, Check Emissions, etc. I assume all of those set because of the voltage drop to the computer. (I assume it had this at the dealership as the positive terminal connection has been twisted like a mechanic was doing a quick fix to get it off the lot!)

Two days ago, it pulled a variation on that theme. I started the car, but the starter barely cranked, the warnings came up, but it turned just enough to start the engine. All the warnings went away, but as I was driving away, the check emissions warning and check transmission light came on, the check engine light came on, the transmission D indicator began flashing, and the car lost power like the computer had put the engine in limp home mode. When I put my code reader on it this morning, the only thing set was a P2821 (Pressure Control Solenoid J Stuck On). I cleared the active code and ran the engine to full warmup without a recurrence, but of course the P2821 gets put in the permanent code list so short of reprogramming the ECU there is no way to get rid of the yellow warning on the code reader.

Has anyone else had this sort of occurrence with their 2013 Civics HF? I have a feeling all of this is going back to the starting system issue that has annoyingly been impossible to troubleshoot. When it is working - all is great, when it isn't, I am never in a position to take things apart.

OweninGA

In case this is real, does anyone know which solenoid the J one is? I see in the transmission diagram three solenoids, two are clearly labeled "A" and "B", but the third one has no letter designation. I hope someone is going to say it is the third one, because it is only about $99 whereas the other two are $400 ish. I am also not looking forward to pulling the motor and transmission and cracking the case on the transmission - I really don't like transmission work, give me an engine any day of the week.

ezone

Battery: How old is it?
On the times it has been drained or dead, how long had the car been sitting?
Have you checked parasitic draw after the car is off? I expect about 30mA or less when all is well.

Code: Your code reader does erase fault codes, yes?

P2821 is a 2 trip code, meaning the first fault occurrence during a drive cycle puts that code into "pending" status in the PCM memory. (code reader should show the code but no warning lights are on yet)
If the same fault occurs during the next drive cycle, the code is then moved to permanent status and the appropriate warning light(s) are illuminated on the dash--
(on newer cars a single fault code can trigger a whole slew of warnings from multiple systems because they depend on the PCM)

P2821 is for line pressure solenoid A (it may also called clutch pressure control solenoid A) stuck on, which could be a fault of the solenoid itself OR a fault inside the transmission. (actual diagnosis involves testing trans line pressure), and of course the solenoid is the cheapest first guess

Looks like it should be #9 in this parts catalog diagram (https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com)

OweninGA

My code reader says there are three types of codes: pending, active, and permanent. My reader cleared the pending and active codes but didn't clear the ones marked permanent. I still need to take it for a test drive to see if the code will set again in the active list. Maybe I need a better code reader?

The battery is original equipment, but has been doing this since about 6 months after I bought it. I haven't tested the current with everything off yet but will have to do that soon, but it is so intermittent, I am afraid it will show 20mA when I test it, and be half an amp the next time the ignition is turned off. I could change the battery, but am afraid I will get the same result.

ezone

I think 'permanent' means a code retained in memory until the repaired fault has been self tested and passed by the pcm. (handy for troubleshooters and for emissions testing where the test station needs to know if a person only attempted to pass the test by erasing codes without any actual repair) IMO ignore that status for now as long as the warning lights are out

Battery is at least 5 years old, age alone makes it highly suspect. I'd say replace it regardless.
Then you can chase the mysterious random parasitic drain

OweninGA

Thanks, I'll take a look at it. I had never seen the "permanent" on any of my older cars, but then again the only code I'd ever seen was for "Bad O2 sensor bank 1" - a 45 minute fix. Learn something new every day.

On my 1994 Civic VX, I invested in the Honda shop manual when I bought the car and it was a big time saver on all my repairs, but I couldn't find a similar option for the 2013 when I bought it. I think the company that was distributing them went out of business.

ezone

I think this began around 2010. My scanner doesn't show them so I tend to forget about it.

Factory service info is no longer printed on paper manuals, it's all electronic and you have to buy a subscription, but they do offer short term deals for the diy person and independent shops

OweninGA

Replaced the battery. Discovered the car goes into complete shutdown mode when the battery is removed as I got 0.0 on the 2000 microamp scale when I connected the positive terminal and checked current between the negative terminal and the battery post. When I connected the negative terminal and opened the car door, no lights came on. The car acted like no battery was connected until I put the key into the ignition and turned to the accessory position. After that everything worked as normal. I made three stops on my drive and no problems with starting (sometimes just a stop at McDs was enough to cause the starting problem before.)

I took it for a 40 mile drive and everything is acting normal. Hooked up the code reader and all codes have cleared. I think it needed a complete reset - the mpg meter is showing it getting about 2 mpg more than usual on that route and the performance is similar to when it was new.

I'll have to go hook the meter up again, but if the car goes into a complete shutdown when the battery is disconnected, I don't know how I am going to do the test. I have a cable clamp ammeter, but I don't think anything less than running the headlights would show up on it. I guess I could hook my little ammeter up in series to the negative terminal, put the key in accessory to wake everything back up and then remove the key and let everything go back to normal sleep mode to do the test.

Thanks for the help.

OweninGA

Here we are 5 weeks later. The car is still functioning normally. So basically I had a bad battery when I drove it off the dealer's lot in early 2014 and should have driven right back to them to get it replaced instead of dealing with all the starting drama for the last 5 years. I won't post on this thread again unless the car acts up the same way again in the next couple of months.

I did find it odd (in a good way) that the entertainment system remembered all my presets after the battery change. I was expecting to have to reset all my radio stations.

Colin42

They usually have a small internal battery to help store those