shaman

iTrader: (19)

Hey everyone... i know there has been alot of discussion and posts on this issue... but in about 3 weeks i will have enought to either get a nice turbo, or do a complete k20a2 swap into my 2002 civic coupe LX....

I was just wondering if i am better off buying a used k20a2 with about 30,000 km on it.... or boosting my d17 that has 56,000 km.


What are peoples thoughts?

2K1Civic17"Gabe

iTrader: (9)

I have 90,000 miles, and am boosting my vic in a week or two. I am turbo'ing,a nd if that isnt enough power, I can always swap and use some of the turbo stuff on the Kseries. JMO. I bet everybody else says SWAP, screw the D17, pointless. A turbo'd vic could easily whoop on a Swapped stock vic. IMO plus it will be cheaper to mod the D17 for a lot of the stuff, but the K20s have more performance parts for it.

Nick

iTrader: (3)

It depends on how far u want to take it.

nindoo

iTrader: (1)

k20a2 responds very well to bolt ons. There are many NA mods including ECU upgrades. Check out clubrsx.com

gh0st

iTrader: (5)

turbo's will run you more than a swap in the long run...so some people boosting have said. i have neither, but i'd prefer a swap over turbo...too much hassle to upkeep for me personally.

Got Boost???

well first off turbo'ing the D17 should be a couple thousand cheaper than a K20A2 swap.

A turbo'd D17 with an average tune should yeild about 240 whp and offer a much broader torque range than a stock K20A2.

However the highest output D17 is at about 300whp. Many mildly modded K20 motors can match that no problem.

SO it all comes down to how much power you want to make, if you think you'll be happy with 300whp or less than go for the boosted D17. But if you need more power than you should get the K20A2 and begin modding that.

isuzu5000

IMO i think i'd go k20 then buy a turbo...yeah it'll be expensive but in the end...its worth it.

even w/ intake, header, and exhuast you will only get about 10 hp...if that.

K20EQUIPPED

I have had my K20 for 10km now and I have had no problems with it. Very reliable. Unlike turbo, and Im sorry if I upset any of you turbo fans out there, but if you want serious boost, you have to start building your D17 up pretty heavy for it to tolerate it. I would stick to a normally aspirated, in the long run you will be alot happier with a k20 swap then a turbo, and so will your wallet

kasimmmmm

iTrader: (13)

swap FOR SURE! No doubt about it... you can turbo a D17, its not too bad but you won't get anywhere close to the results you can get with a K20. D17 just doesn't have the potential. Plus, its money well spent.

deciuss

lets see pay 6-8 grand for a swap with around 180 for the k20a2 9rsx type s) or pay 4 grand for 240hp? im gona take the 4 grand way for more hp so that would be turbo. sure you will say just turbo the swap ok so add another 4 grand to that top end payment your looking at 12 grand + odds and ends that would make your civic 30 grand from what you payed for it if you have an ex and mods. now with that much power with the swap your looking at new axils ect ect so your looking at even more then 12 grand.

i know i would not put another 12+grand into my car i would put a down payment on a 5 series bmw but thats just me...

the truth is your are paying more in the long run for a swap plus if you dont mod that swap you will get owned all day long by turboed d17's

K20EQUIPPED

deciuss

what is about?

look swap 6 grand for a k20 non type s for only 160hp 4 grand for a turbo for 240ish hp on the d17?

hence allready paying more for your dumb swap then on top of that if you want to be faster and toss a turbo on there thats 4 grand bam 10 grand to be faster then a civic that only payed 4 grand or less for there turbo.

deciuss

if you have the cash for a k20 swap with enuff for a turbo go for it or you will get owned all day long by a turboed d17

K20EQUIPPED

Is that before or after you have to build your D17 up to get proper use and reliabilty out of it....Your cutting your engines life in half by bolting on a turbo and not doing any internals...

kimchi29

iTrader: (11)

if you plan on going swap and boost, get a new car

deciuss

im untuned no boost controller hooked up so i dont know what psi im running no internal build with an auto tranny and i own rsx's all day long and of the one type s i have encounterd i took him to.

lissen you have a k20 swap good for you but unless you have boost on that thing i will own it on the track all day long. to many people are jumping on the swaped bandwagon lattly

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

post in the right forum.

jttegx

iTrader: (3)

varies on driving habits and future use of the car.

turbo route: requires great tuning, stresses engine, gonna need better oils, fuel, etc from then on. good side is that you wont have to deal with swapping out the tranny, ecu, and everything else. your car will feel as if it were stock rather than worrying about using rsx parts in ur civic now and then.

swap route: much more potential than the d17, competes with the boosted d17 on its n/a route, can sell the d17 motor for few hundred to get you going, fewer miles (assuming it wasnt abused), etc etc

theres alot to think about. i say make a list of the pros n cons of the swap/turbo and see for yourself. think about what your use for the vehicle well be too. dont forget money costs

deciuss

you dont need to swap trannys for turbo. cant think of name but there is an auto guy on here been running 6psi every day and 8 for track i belive for over 9 months now with no problems at all.

tranny cooler = and its only 50 bucks

aznboysrfr

iTrader: (10)

let's get some things straight ...

the average stock k20a2 dyno's around 165-170 whp ... if you add an intake and exhaust to that (exhaust is req'd ... intake = most people get), it'll be around 185 whp.

4 grand will NOT get you 240 whp with a turbo ... unless you're boosting at well over 10 psi, which is not reliable at ALL ... not to mention that you would need a new clutch to handle the extra torque, and a lot of people get a new lightened flywheel as well.

Let's do the math ..

K20a2 swap = $3500
Hasport mounts = $500
Si axles = $300
Labor = $1000 (for example)

Total = $5300

Turbo setup = $2500
Boost Controller = $100 ?
Clutch = $250
Flywheel = $250
Labor for all = $1000

Total = $4100

Now you've got a turbo setup good for about a safe 7-8 psi ... unless you get it dyno tuned. most turbo setups at 7-8 psi dyno right around 180 whp. So you're around the same whp as the K20a2 swap ... to make your turbo setup handle more power, you need to build up the internals and you've got yourself spending another few 1000 to run more boost.

k20a2 on the other hand will be much more reliable ... rev to 8000 (8600 with a reflash or k-pro) and you can tune it yourself or download an already-tuned program from different clubrsx members who already have theirs tuned (for your setup, of course).

Bottom Line: I have not seen ANY 1/4 mile slips of turbo'ed d17's that are in the 13's on street tires ... except for that guy that was running with 19's ... and he ran a 13.9 iirc.

I HAVE seen plenty of 13 second all-motor K20a2's on clubrsx ... and with a swap, our cars are already 200 pounds lighter than a stock RSX-S.

Swap > Turbo

deciuss

other then the fact that there is an auto guy on there before he sold that ran 14psi on his auto tranny and it was still even fine. auto in this case is stronger then manuel.

dont belive me? fine posting slips this summer as soon as i can

kimchi29

iTrader: (11)

screw the money which outs cooler. the beautiful sound of the turbo spooling and the BOV letting off, or the mean screaming sound of vtec kicking in, gotta think about that one.

aznboysrfr

iTrader: (10)

unless he's tuned, he's got to be an idiot running 14 psi on a stock block. even at that, his engine will not last long ...

also, what if you have a manual? ... it's not like everyone here has autos

yup ... post slips. I'll be posting slips too ...

what psi are you running right now? how much did YOUR setup cost?

2K1Civic17"Gabe

iTrader: (9)

You can get hooked up on turbo for way under 4100. Lets figure out what I'm paying installed:

Kit:2575 shipped give or take a few bucks
Clutch:220 shipped
New Tires:90 for 2 give or take 5 bucks
Labor:free (find people to help)

Total:2885 - WOW!

TSI kit comes with fuel system, injectors, FMU, everything to get ya going reliably at 6 or 7 psi. I am getting an Exedy Organic Clutch,a nd new tires since mine are bald. The kit comes with presets to put into their FMU for our car. So it will run reliably enough till I get over to the tuner (right away). Than you can get some methanol injection, thats a nice increase right there, some stronger internals, and a few thousand later you can have a nice D17.

lets say you have the swap money and deduct my stuff from that:
5300
2885

2415 is your total leftover. And dont say that a turbo would be slower than swap after 2400 invested into the motor.

You have to shop around. I think a swap could be done for way cheaper than that, though. Maybe a few thousand.

K20EQUIPPED

And turbo charging a civic isnt part of any bandwagon? hahahah Wanna race

aznboysrfr

iTrader: (10)

where can you get an exedy organic clutch for 220 shipped? ... link me plz

you can also say the same for your the swap ... $1000 off labor if you find some people who know how .... $4300. most people do not know how or are afraid of putting a clutch in and also installing a turbo kit.

if you take labor off of one, you can take labor off the other.

also, are you gonna put the new tires on yourself? ... must be some pretty crappy tires if both are going for 90 shipped

btw: have you dyno'ed your car yet? ... I wanna see how much power the tsi kit makes off stock boost ... which, according to you, is 6-7 psi

GuliziaN

iTrader: (1)

Considering i'm in a very low income situation because of school... I would go with the Turbo D17... It yields substantial power for daily driving needs and for an occational track outing.

K20EQUIPPED

Yeah, then I wouldint turbo, because in the long run it's going to cost you lots of $$$

deciuss

3,500 for my set up untuned no boost controller basicly im running blind. and i dont care

K20EQUIPPED i would own you unless your running a turbo you would go home crying due to you got beet by a turboed auto.

deciuss

K20EQUIPPED why in the long run is it going to cost that person more money he could get a tsi or whatever kit for 2,500 and be fine for years with that ooo and stick right with a rsx swap with no mods.