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Hello all, I'm wondering what could cause play in the steering rack and if this is something fixable. Several years ago I converted my 05 Civic from hydraulic steering to an electric power steering system from an 04 Civic Hybrid. Ever since I installed that rack, the front wheels have had a small amount of side to side play as if the tie rod ends are worn even though the inner and outer tie rod ends were replaced and are tight.
After a bit of research I found that the plastic slider on these steering racks commonly fails and causes play in the steering, so I ordered a new one from Honda and replaced it. Unfortunately that didn't solve the problem, the old one was actually barely worn. I also tried slightly tightening the large adjustment bolt under the drivers side of the rack, but unfortunately that didn't help either.
At this point I'm wondering what else in the rack could cause this play. The center piece on the rack that the tie rods screw into has a little up and down play and can be seen twisting up and down when shaking one of the front wheels back and forth, but the way that little plastic slider piece just sits in its slot I would think that is to be expected. My 04 Civic's hydraulic rack has more play in that piece than this one and although moving that piece up and down visibly changes the front toe, it doesn't cause the wheels to have play like my 05 has.
Any other ideas what could cause play in the rack? If at all possible I would prefer to fix this rack than buy another used one that could have the same problem, so any ideas are greatly appreciated.
How much vertical movement are we talking about on the rack slider?
Not a whole lot, maybe a couple mm at most. I will try to get a video of it tomorrow. How much vertical play is expected in the slider?
I'm not sure if the slider movement has anything to do with the play in the wheels because my other Civic with a hydraulic rack has way more play in the original slider than this one and although it drives like crap, it doesn't have play in the wheels. This car's original hydraulic rack had more play in the slider than this one too and didn't cause any play either.
have you had someone move the wheel while you look at it ?
Not yet, but it does move up and down if I jack up one of the front wheels and shake it back and forth so I assume it would move turning the steering wheel back and forth too. I'll have to try that though.
There is a spec for rotation play in the steering wheel. All of this is from the EP3 service manual since I don't have one for the hybrid.
And the adjustment procedure:
Thanks, I will try readjusting the "rack guide" now that I have the exact procedure but I don't think it will help. I already tried snugging it up a little bit and didn't notice much difference in the play. I think if anything I went too far because the steering feels more sticky now and it centers itself even less than it did before.
if that does not help, the suspicions will fall into the rack itself
The problem definitely is something with the rack itself, I just don't know what it is or if it's fixable. Looking like fixing this rack may not be possible, so I may just have to live with it until a junkyard gets another hybrid and grab its rack if it doesn't have this play.
I found a Civic Hybrid at U Pull It and was going to grab its steering rack, but it had the exact same play mine does so there was no point in it. While I was there, I also checked a few regular Civics with the hydraulic rack to see if they had play and every one I checked had no play or much less play than mine and their hybrid.
Maybe the electric racks just have more play than the hydraulic racks do?
Cool. Here are the videos I took. The first video is of how much I can turn the steering wheel without moving the wheels with the key off and the second video is of how much I can move the front wheels side to side without moving the steering wheel or the other wheel.
There shouldn't be any movement like that at the wheels. With that amount of movement is the rack slider moving up/down or left/right?
Didn't think so but I don't have another EPS rack to compare it to other than that one at the junkyard that does the same thing. With that amount of movement, the slider moves up and down. Whether that is what is causing the play or not I'm not sure.
Does the aluminium housing the slider goes in wear over time? If it did, that would explain why the piece moves up and down. However, it seems unlikely that the plastic slider would wear the aluminium housing without appreciably wearing itself?
I assume the housing itself can wear but because the slider is plastic, I assume it would take a really long time. I can't remember exactly how much vertical movement I have on my EPS rack but I'm fairly sure it's a negligible amount. You could try another rack or maybe an aftermarket slider? Maybe it wouldn't have as much play.
I assume the housing itself can wear but because the slider is plastic, I assume it would take a really long time. I can't remember exactly how much vertical movement I have on my EPS rack but I'm fairly sure it's a negligible amount. You could try another rack or maybe an aftermarket slider? Maybe it wouldn't have as much play.
Good idea. I recently installed the much more sturdy slider from SHG and it seems to have slightly improved the steering responsiveness while driving, but the side to side play in the wheels is unfortunately still there.
The other odd thing that I forgot to mention is it takes quite a bit of force to shake the tires side to side at the 9 and 3 positions, which I have never run across before. Every one of the many times I have seen play from something like bad inner or outer tie rod ends, the tires always shook with very little force and the source of the play was obvious.
Can someone with an electric rack please confirm whether they have any side to side play in their front wheels? Considering the fact that the toe in/out is dependent on a little plastic slider that's bound to have some amount of play in it, I really don't see how the wheels could have absolutely zero play.
You mean with the front wheels off the ground? I can check but probably none. Definitely not like in your second video, as long as the steering wheel is not moving at that time.
I also installed a better rack slider from SHG about five years ago. It looked like the below.
You mean with the front wheels off the ground? I can check but probably none. Definitely not like in your second video, as long as the steering wheel is not moving at that time.
I also installed a better rack slider from SHG about five years ago. It looked like the below.
Awesome, that would be great. A friend also has an EPS rack with play in it and a Civic Hybrid in a junkyard that I checked while considering pulling its rack had similar play too, so at this point, all 3 of this style EPS racks I have had personal experience with all had some noticeable amount of play.
I just checked my other 7th gen (with the stock hydraulic rack) for play in the front wheels. It definitely had much less play, but still a tiny bit if I really pay attention. As a comparison, I also checked my 1997 Civic with 354K miles on the original rack and it had absolutely NO play in the wheels whatsoever, which I have yet to see from a 7th gen.
Forgot to check as I was busy working on another project. Hopefully I will remember this evening. My rack is from an EP3 but I would expect the only difference to be gear ratio. Is the play coming from inside the steering rack or from the middle of the rack (where the tie rods connect) moving up and down? Positive the steering wheel isn't moving?
I can confirm zero vertical movement where tie rods attach to steering rack. Only side to side play at the wheels is directly related to the steering wheel turning. With the steering wheel turned until it "locks", the little play at the wheels is caused by the steering wheel still being able to turn just a little.
I can confirm zero vertical movement where tie rods attach to steering rack. Only side to side play at the wheels is directly related to the steering wheel turning. With the steering wheel turned until it "locks", the little play at the wheels is caused by the steering wheel still being able to turn just a little.
Perfect, thanks for checking! Knowing it's possible for one of these electric racks to not have play helps a lot. I may try to get an EP3 rack then since my other 3 experiences have been with the ES9 racks and they have all had play. I wonder if the EP3 rack is perhaps made by a different company or to tighter standards or something.
Also, does your rack feel sticky? For whatever reason, mine feels sticky like it doesn't want to smoothly steer small amounts or fully re center itself. It feels great and re centers some of the way at intersections or more dramatic curves, but I have to manually center it the rest of the way or the car will continue traveling in the direction I turned it last. It doesn't pull to one side or the other like the alignment is off and I can make it go fairly straight without steering input by centering the steering just right, but it doesn't have the feeling of naturally wanting to go straight when letting go of the wheel if that makes sense.
Also, does your rack feel sticky? For whatever reason, mine feels sticky like it doesn't want to smoothly steer small amounts or fully re center itself. It feels great and re centers some of the way at intersections or more dramatic curves, but I have to manually center it the rest of the way or the car will continue traveling in the direction I turned it last. It doesn't pull to one side or the other like the alignment is off and I can make it go fairly straight without steering input by centering the steering just right, but it doesn't have the feeling of naturally wanting to go straight when letting go of the wheel if that makes sense.
Not really. The only difference from the original hydraulic rack that I notice is turning with the engine off.
Not really. The only difference from the original hydraulic rack that I notice is turning with the engine off.
Good to know, thanks. Now that I think about it, when I installed the EPS rack several years ago, I drove it without the power assist connected for several months while I was looking for the control unit and wiring harness. Maybe that somehow damaged the rack by overstressing the input side? I would think the rack would be designed in a way that the power assist failing wouldn't damage it, but I'm not sure what else could have caused this.
Maybe that somehow damaged the rack by overstressing the input side? I would think the rack would be designed in a way that the power assist failing wouldn't damage it
You are correct that it wouldn't damage anything. Steering must be able to work if the power steering assist fails.
Not sure what else to tell you. You did check the steering wheel rotational play I mentioned last year? If so, there is slop somewhere in the system you will have to track down.
Hello all, I'm wondering what could cause play in the steering rack and if this is something fixable. Several years ago I converted my 05 Civic from hydraulic steering to an electric power steering system from an 04 Civic Hybrid. Ever since I installed that rack, the front wheels have had a small amount of side to side play as if the tie rod ends are worn even though the inner and outer tie rod ends were replaced and are tight.
After a bit of research I found that the plastic slider on these steering racks commonly fails and causes play in the steering, so I ordered a new one from Honda and replaced it. Unfortunately that didn't solve the problem, the old one was actually barely worn. I also tried slightly tightening the large adjustment bolt under the drivers side of the rack, but unfortunately that didn't help either.
At this point I'm wondering what else in the rack could cause this play. The center piece on the rack that the tie rods screw into has a little up and down play and can be seen twisting up and down when shaking one of the front wheels back and forth, but the way that little plastic slider piece just sits in its slot I would think that is to be expected. My 04 Civic's hydraulic rack has more play in that piece than this one and although moving that piece up and down visibly changes the front toe, it doesn't cause the wheels to have play like my 05 has.
Any other ideas what could cause play in the rack? If at all possible I would prefer to fix this rack than buy another used one that could have the same problem, so any ideas are greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
I had the same problem with my civic 2017. The key problem lays in the guides of the steering rack. They wear out over time. Unfortunately Honda does not make replacement spare parts for the last two gens..
What you can do is take out the guides form the steering rack (located below the guide screw) and check if you can find the same size for older models.
hope this helps!
Last edited by ashour_ba; Jul 28, 2024 at 08:20 PM.
