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This may just be a record of my thoughts while trying to fix this issue. However, I am welcoming of advice in the process. So far I have had quite the concert of errors since getting this car in 2022. It was my father's before me, and I neither know where he got it nor the condition it was in when it came to him. However, he was the "inventive" type so some of what I show might be his handy-work.
If you read the history of my posts I have had the clutch go out on me, radiator fans not coming on, and the transmission not staying in gear. The trans and the clutch have been fixed, and I have been doing the paperclip solution for now until I get a chance to flush the cooling system and take care of some other issues. That brings us to yesterday.
She has been hard to start for a while. It is all due to a bad starter, I suspect / hope. The starter spins but will not catch the flywheel some of the time. I normally just stop cranking and try again, eventually the teeth will mesh. I already checked the contacts and everything is strong so that is why I suspect the starter. However, it has been happening more and more often. I think that either the internals aren't delivering enough power to the solenoid to push the starter gear into mesh with the flywheel, or there are teeth missing from the starter gear. I realize the flywheel may be missing teeth as well, but I don't want to enter that into the equation yet.
Yesterday while starting her, she took a good bit of time, 3-5 minutes. During that time, some of the failed starts elicited a pop/puff sound coming from the hood. She started shortly after that and I went off, I was late at that point. During the drive I noticed that she was idling rather high. Normally with the clutch in or in neutral she sits at 700 rpm. That drive she was usually between 1200-1500. On the drive back I had more of the same, except now the idle was surging from 1300-1900, sometimes higher. It did trigger a code, P0507. Idle RPM being high is definitely the symptom, so right on. When I got home it was late so I shut her down and called it a night.
Today I did some checking. My first thought was to check the IACV, which I did. Didn't look that gunked up, but I cleaned it anyway. Coolant in the hoses running to it, which confirmed that we had a full system. I know some hondas will surge with low coolant. While the IACV was off I tested it with test leads and it reacted when I had power on the center pin and ground on the top pin. No reaction with ground on the bottom pin. I know that is the signal pin, but I expected at least some reaction. I cleaned the throttle body while I had the airbox off as well. I started her up again and had the same surging. I disconnected the IACV connector and started her again. This time the surging was very rapid, compared to with the connector in which was about 1-2 seconds between high and low rpm.
I also had my helper watch under the hood while I started the car these times, and there was a puff out of the driver side of the bay, right of the throttle body. I took this photo and it looks like somebody cracked the intake manifold and tried to fix it with RTV. Not sure if this was my dad or the person beforehand.
So now I am torn between this being an IACV issue, and having to replace it (woof $$$), and the IACV trying to fix the problem caused by the manifold leak.
Thanks for the heads up. Can I access them from above or do I need to go under the car?
Rust, yeah she was a northern car. I already had the impact screwdriver out to remove the IACV. Most of the rust is on the untreated parts/bolts/lines. The frame is rather well kept. I also recently replaced control arms as they were pretty bad.
I am a little worried about rework. One of the consistent issues with this car is that the fans won't come on. I already replaced and tested the fan switch in boiling water. I also use the paperclip trick in the connector. In my previous thread we suspected a head gasket leak causing coolant foam to prevent the fan switch from activating. However, I did one of those blue liquid tests to see if there are exhaust gasses in the coolant, finding none. I am not sure how trustworthy those are, but if it is wrong and I end up needing to do the head gasket, I imagine that I will have to do this job again, in order to remove the head.
Thanks for the heads up. Can I access them from above or do I need to go under the car?
Underneath. Not too bad to reach them. A socket on the end of 12"+ of extensions helps.
Originally Posted by crowfather
Rust, yeah she was a northern car. I already had the impact screwdriver out to remove the IACV. Most of the rust is on the untreated parts/bolts/lines. The frame is rather well kept. I also recently replaced control arms as they were pretty bad.
I feel your pain. I'm from Ohio, so I've seen some rust.
Originally Posted by crowfather
I am a little worried about rework. One of the consistent issues with this car is that the fans won't come on. I already replaced and tested the fan switch in boiling water. I also use the paperclip trick in the connector. In my previous thread we suspected a head gasket leak causing coolant foam to prevent the fan switch from activating. However, I did one of those blue liquid tests to see if there are exhaust gasses in the coolant, finding none. I am not sure how trustworthy those are, but if it is wrong and I end up needing to do the head gasket, I imagine that I will have to do this job again, in order to remove the head.
You can remove the head with the intake still attached, I have done that once.
Unbolt the two brackets from underneath, they connect the manifold to the block. Undo hoses, harness connections, etc. Unbolt the 8 or so bolts/nuts holding the plastic intake manifold to the injector base. Remove the manifold. Obviously, I'm simplifying here.
If removing the head and intake manifold together....skip the 8 bolts holding the manifold on. Remove the timing belt, undo the head bolts, remove the head. Again, simplifying.
Even if the pinion is fully extending when I test it? Doesn't that seem to indicate wiring?
If I do need to replace it, is it better to go with a reman denso/bosch/delco, or a new other brand? Rock auto has TYC, Remy, Pure Energy, WAI, and BBB. I am not very familiar with the latter list.
You could try cleaning up the starter and reinstalling if you wanted.
Only two wires going to the starter. A main battery feed which always has battery power, and a solenoid wire which turns on the solenoid and starter motor. If either of those circuits were intermittent, you couldn't get starter spinning but solenoid retracted.
Fair points. I am not trying to be difficult. I just want to avoid spending the money on the starter, installing it, and winding up with the same behavior as before. The contacts all look clean, both on the starter and the wiring unfortunately.
To your spinning point, the starter ALWAYS would spin. I never turned the key and it didn't spin. The only question was if it would engage the flywheel. So perhaps the solenoid is going.
To your spinning point, the starter ALWAYS would spin. I never turned the key and it didn't spin. The only question was if it would engage the flywheel. So perhaps the solenoid is going.
Yes, exactly. With the starter always spinning, that points to failing solenoid or the mechanical portion sticking. With the starter being on top of the trans, it isn't that difficult to replace if you wanted to try cleaning it up first. TYC brand alternator on RockAuto is about $100.
So I found a used intake on ebay for $65 which seemed to be the best price+shipping I could find. I am going to go with the Fel-pro gasket set since they have served me well, and the set includes the throttle body gasket as well. Since the fuel rail comes off, I am also going to replace the injector o-rings. I will also do a starter per the previous discussion. Hopefully I can get into this the first weekend of August.
Any other gaskets that might need to be replaced along the way? I am open to suggestions.
I got the ebay intake in today. Looks like a fit. Going to remove the old one this weekend and make sure it is.
The nice surprise is that this intake came with the lower, the upper, the throttle body, all the attached sensors, also the fuel rail and injectors. Not sure if any of them are good, but quickly looking at prices, anything I don't use might be sellable to recoup parts costs.
I also encountered something that I cannot find a part number for, or any insight on elsewhere. There is a little cap on top of the injector that looks to hold the tip o-ring on. Two of these came off when pulling the fuel rail, does anybody know how to put them back on? I tried to press them on but they wouldn't pop.
