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Hey Guys

My Dad is looking at the Civc Si, (Canadian, so EX US) and was not that impressed with it compared to our mint 93 Integra RS. There's only a 13 horse difference (127 vs 140) and our Integra is an AUTO, whereas he drove a 5 spd Civic, but it really didn't seem to pull as well or as easily. You'd think that with VTEC those 127 horses would be delivered in a more useful way than our non-VTEC 140.

He also drove an Acura EL (with the Civc 127) in another city with a drive uphill and it was definitely not as good as the Integra.

I'd also think VTEC could make up for a 100cc difference and deliver at least the same power as the non-VTEC 140 horse 1.8 we have.

Is there some sort of big restriction in the Civic's setup that explains why it's so sucked for power?

Basically, what would be the cheapest way to get the new Civic up to old base Integra performance in the 140-145 horse range?

If it isn't that feasible he may forget performance and by a Matrix for the big trunk! HELP!

Fox

 
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First, the V-TEC in the new D-series engine isn't really V-TEC. The power gains that it gives are minimal at best. Second, the cat converter on these cars is very close to the exhaust ports, and is very restrictive. Third, the car is very well tuned for minimal emissions (ULEV rating) and when you are trying to squeeze more out of it, it just doesn't give you much to play with.

From reading alot of posts on this site, the best way to add power is with a custom turbo setup. But that means some serious $$$. If you're looking for performance out of the box, and you have already considered it, look at the Matrix, or even the Pontiac Vibe. It's the same as the Matrix, just a little cheaper.

 
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Keep in mind that 127 HP is 127 HP with or without vtec... SO a 127 HP car will feel like a 127 HP car... if you turbo'd a car and it was only putting out 127 HP it would feel the same as a non turbo car (basically...) because it would still only have 127 HP...

So, the V-Tec isn't going to make up for the 13 HP difference because there is a 13 HP difference. Am I making sense? The integra will be more powerfull then the EX cause it has more HP... that's the bottom line. As far as getting a civic to 140 HP... you'd have to spend a lot of money for those extra 13 HP... it would make more sense to go all out as mentioned above and just turbo it but that's more then you'd probably want to spend.

-Mark

 
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Thanks for the replies. I was just thinking with VTEC the output should be less peaky and maybe come on earlier.

How far do you think something like cold air/throttle body would go?

 
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I agree with Zman. You won't squeeze much out of the D series engine. and I really suggest a Pontiac Vibe. It is a toyota engine, but an american label so it is cheaper than the japanese version. You should be able to squeeze more out of that engine as it has a 1.8l engine rated a 130hp. I think it is the same engine in the corolla. Parts for those cars will be forthcoming tho.

From the people here, upgrading to a CAI and boring your TB won't do that much. to increase air flow you will have to get a CAI, bore you TB, port and polish, new head gasket, and a full exhaust system with high flow cat to get some power. Ask Spider or Black99vtec for more info on internal workings. That might give you a great amount of air flow and some HP but you might lose some torque.

 
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Get a canadian Si-R... test drive it and tell me you don't like it... unless your're looking for an automatic?

 
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unless its in a nsx VTEC IS WEAK.

i still dont know why people blow it up i think b/c its catchy.

 
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umm s2000, prelude, integra type r....and youre saying its weak?

 
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second time today i was referenced in a post.. cool.. and if u need any info on port/polish or bored TB just pm me

 
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the prelude and integra type r are weak. as for the s2k i think its a major girl car just a fast one. (thats just my opinion i know it has good handles to but i dont like the styling)

$26,233 for a mid to high 15 sec car just b/c it has a red "type r" sticker NO THANKS

look at a z28 camaro base price on those is $21,615 and a firebird formula is only $23,870 msrp

yea the honda's and acura's look cool but thats about it. the reason i bought my civic is for a nice daily driver not for any kind of performance

 
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i had a 98' Z28 6speed and it broke about once everyother week.. so in the end u are paying more.... and my friend has a ITR w/ i/h/e and it runs a low 13 so stock a mid to low 14.. a 01 up civic with a excellent drive can pull off a high 15 in a stocker

 
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i think the older tegs have more torque too

 
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are you trying to say a type r is better than a z28????

anyways your z28 must have been a lemon my family always has bought camaros or firebirds for decades and they have been very good to us.

 
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yes an itr is better then a Z28 in everything except straight line performance

 
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thats your opinion i dont agree with it but whatever

 
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well after owning one and driving one quit a few times that is my opinion

 
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we have a firebird my opinion is ls1's ROCK

 
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yes the ls1 is a mean v8.... but just pure force isnt enough for me.. i have to have a mix of everything...

 
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what did you not like about your z28 my friend has one and loves it and we love are firebird and my uncles love there old camaros and birds and stangs so i dont know what kind of complaints you can have against a muscle car like those.

 
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well the engine was god.. i cant complain about that but the breaks were lackin in gripping power so i changed out the rotors and pads helped some, and the handeling wasnt percious as i like.. the rear of the car wasnt as stable at high speeds.. there are many more things

 
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thats really weird. are bird is one of the most stable cars i have ever drivin at high speeds. the handling is really good and the only mod to the handles was a racing wheel.

i was in the car when my friends z28 (not stock) raced a porsche and destroyed it. i love PURE POWER. im a few months away from getting a black formula i plan on keeping that car forever just like my dad and uncles always keep there muscle cars.

 
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what tires are on the firebird?? bc i had the stockers on her that might have been it

 
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stockers are okay for the first few months but after a while PERFORMANCE TIRES ARE A MUST. i wish you kept your camaro for a little longer and tested new tires on them. then maybe you will have a differant opinion on them.

i dont think a camaro or firebird should be a daily driver even thou my dad uses the bird as a daily driver but thats only b/c he leaves in the EARLY morning and loves no traffic in a muscle car.

 
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i had it for a year but then i killed it.. well a person sideswipped me then i hit a curb sideways then it flipped over once

 
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WHAT! i would be SOOOO scared if my car flipped how does it feel or is it to fast and all a blur.

BTW me and you own this thread lol lo

 
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it just happens so fast u dont really know.. but when u relize u are upside down hangine from a seatbelt(and hangine from a seatbelt hurts alot)

 
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OUCH!!!

i was in a wreck with my friends 2000 civic when he got hit on the freeway from behind we swerved into all 4 lanes at about 70 mph SIDEWAYS and ended up on the side of the wall by the fast lane facing the wrong way we were forced to watch cars going 80 mph change lanes to aviod hiting us SCARY!!!