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torque is really what pulls the car. that "pull" everyone talks about it torque itself. yea ive driven in a car with over 300 ft/pounds of torque. its FAST. i mean you feel glad your in a seat cause you feel like youll fly out of it. but yea i understand apples and oranges.

 
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This is sickening. HP/Liter means absolutely nothing. It is not a measure of efficiency, or "mechanical prowess". There are just simply different ways of achieving a desired power output. Example:

Nissan 350Z
3.5 Liter
300 HP
260 ft*lb
0-60 in 5.6s
Skidpad 1.03g
Curb Weight 3339 lbs
Fuel Economy 19/25

Chevy Corvette
6.0 Liter
400 HP
400 ft*lb
0-60 4.5s
Skidpad .98g
Curb Weight 3179 lbs
Fuel Economy 18/28

The Corvette has roughly 71% more displacement, yet achieves similar fuel economy when compared to the Z which is of similar weight. Of course gearing and the slight weight difference has an affect on fuel economy, BUT the Corvette is also putting out 100 more ponies. Which one of these cars has more "mechanical prowess"?

 
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My friends lingenfelter I was talking about, I've ridden in it. Hell, he used to have an 02 with 490rwhp(ls6), but he totalled it. I thought it was fast until I rode in his 03. I can't even put into words how powerful that car feels.

 
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ok, yet the vette has all the more displacement, and makes only 100 more hp. thats the other arguement. i could take a 455 big block 7.4 litre motor and make it more powerful then that vette motor. for a few thousand dollars too. does that make a difference? does it make the vette motor obsolete? or not as good as a 455? there are too many arguements with this.

 
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I don't mind the gas guzzlin V8's at all.When gas hits $10.00 a gallon then maybe I'll think about it.Till then V8's all the way. Maybe a V10

 
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The point is that it is simply two different perspectives on creating power. Sure, the 6.0 liter could be designed to put out 600 horsepower, but there are tradeoffs for that. Fuel economy will be a big one. The point of my example is that you have two similar cars, with very different engines. Looking at their performance and fuel economy you can't say which one is better. They both do the job equally well. Any argument that someone uses to say that one of those engines is better than another can't be based on facts, because as you can see, they both are excellent powerplants which happen to achieve their goals through very different means. One method is no better than another. HP/liter is usless because it does not bring into account any other characteristics of the application. To say that a high HP/liter engine is superior doesn't say anything about the engine design or engineering that went into it.

 
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i dont think redlining a k24 ALL day can still get you better fuel efficiency than a V8 man.. unless you're smokin something while you're doing it and your brain doesn't register the fact that you're draining your gas like there is no tomorrow. a few of my friends were going around doing just that but in their rsx type-s's and i HIGHLY doubt that V8's have THAT bad fuel efficiency cuz they drained the majority of the gas from their tank in just 1 day. Unless of course you were just using that as an "overly" exaggerated example.

 
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The z is more efficient in terms of hp/liter, but the vette engine is *probably* wink wink a better engine.

Hp/liter obviously means something and it is a way to judge an engine, not the only way, of course, but A way. It means something because it is sweet to see a smaller engine with high numbers. Why? because it goes against intuition and it is interesting.
This is getting old I am outta here.

Read this about TQ and HP if you wanna
http://www.superstang.com/horsepower.htm

 
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so would you show off your 1 inch ***** if you thought that it was a good performer? this thread was really intended as a joke guys, and for the record, that's 623 WHEEL HORSEPOWER. divide by .85 for flywheel HP and its way over 100HP/L (which I really think is a useless number anyway). IT WAS A JOKE. weight for weight I'd ALWAYS rather have more HP, I don't care for a really efficient go-cart motor. The LSx series of engines is also extremely light. That LS7 weighs less than an SR20. SO, it has more HP, more HP per pound, sounds like an animal, has a flat torque curve, and gets good gas mileage. BTW, the Z06 can turn like a mother****er. It'll hang with a 911 turbo on a racetrack. Like I've said before, I like foreign cars and domestic engines. Also the LS7 isn't old technology. It has a number of race-car like items (titanium rods, dry sump oil system, sodium filled valves). Pushrod engines were actually developed after OHC engines, b/c the OHC engines were so big and heavy (look at the M5 engine, it wouldn't fit in the trunk of a civic).

 
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Hp/liter is really only a good measurement for 4 cylinder engines and maybe 6 cylinders. When it comes to the big V8+ you have to sacrifice some of the power you can make for fuel efficiency because you will sell a lot less cars if the customers have to pay the gas guzzler tax on all of them.

I'm more a fan of inline 6 engines than anything, bmw m's s54 is probably my top motor of all time in the inline 6 category and it makes over 100hp/liter so the stat is useful and not "ricer" at all.

 
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gearing has a MUCH larger effect on fuel economy, so comparing displacement with fuel economy is pointless. obviously the more hp/liter the more the fuel economy goes down. but look at the S2000. 120hp/liter while getting very good fuel economy for a sports car. (the 18/24 figures are nowhere near realistics. it's more like 21/26) And it does it without having to "cheat" with a tall *** 6th gear that can't even be used for acceleration.

also, you're getting too "literal" with your terminology. it's a mechanical feat. and accomplishment. that's what hp/liter means. if anyone and everyone could do it, then they'd have already done it. obviously the 100hp/liter mark is not as easy to attain, hence the reason it's an accomplishment or mechanical feat. it doesn't mean one engine is superior to another. it's simply an accomplishment, that's it.

 
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I did some searching. Plus there is no way an all alum 4cyl weighs more than a v8 its just not possible. So here you go

SR20DET Complete
+ Five Speed 490lbs (source Sport Compact Car)

The net result is a fully trimmed engine that weighs 458 pounds, only 10 more than the 6.0-liter LS2."
Also, BMW's M5 Product Information Guide says that the 5.0 liter 500 hp (SAE net) V-10 weighs 240 kg/529 lbs.

The v8 stat is just motor no trans and its from corvette forum.com. I do agree that the ls7 is a dam nice engine to come out of detroit but still nothing near the import engines of today. The only domestic I see heading the right way would be ford in there small size big numbers.

 
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by comparison, the F20C in the S2000 weighs 326 lbs.

 
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I am an economics major in my senior year of my bachelors degree.

Also what you fail to see is that a honda motor is good for more than 300,000 miles if maintained properly. Your run-of-the-mill small block is good to maybe 210,000 miles on average. Our 1995 GMC 1500 just passed the 210,000 mile marker. And it gets its routine maintenence dead on the mileage set, every time. It has had little to no problems, other than a few cylinders are losing compression. The motor has never been beat up, and the only mod on the thing is a 3.0" flowmaster cat back.

My CRX on the other hand..... It had 264,000 miles on it when i turbocharged it. I was running 15 psi of boost daily on the stock motor. And the thing finally let go at 305,000 miles.

My 56 chevy belair...




My built D17 on an engine hoist next to my Belair...


My civic next to my 1999 corvette...


and yea. i would take the 350 hp corvette over a 250 hp civic anyday. Even though the civic is more impressive number-wise.... the corvette is a faster.

But, which is more impressive? I think the civic is more impressive just because of how much power it is making with such a small motor. But since the vette is faster, i would drive that.

 
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^^beautiful classic car

 
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from corvetteforum

"I just purchased the ls2 complete with tranny, wires,computer.
And the weight was 509 according to the trucking company.

the only things missing were the dash to computer wires and all the air intake box including the air flow meter."

the LS7 is 15lbs lighter (titanium rods, forged crank, less bore material)

thats 4 lbs heavier, but close. sr20's are stock at 1/2 the power of a LS7 and 2K bucks into an LS7 will net you 600+whp (tuning alone gets 40+)

 
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These LS series motors GM has so much timimg and torque management in these things and once tuned they really come alive.I just had my Trailblazer SS tuned with a cold air intake and pick up 57 hp 54 ft torque on the 400 hp LS2.The shift points are raised and firm.HUGE difference.I've already pulled a 13.4 @ 102 in the 1/4 stock on my AWD.I'm getting a Yank torque converter installed and going to the track next weekend.I'll be happy for a 13 flat but can see 12's happening.Right now I can get all 4 wheels to spin on launch.Not bad for a gas guzzlin SUV.IMO

 
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you're right, the LS7 has a TINY air filter on it and the A/F curve is all dicked up to kill the power on launch (as well as the torque management that cuts the timing). it's cheaper for GM to have a 505 HP car with a drivetrain that doesn't break than to upgrade the entire drivetrain (unfortunately). tuning, air filter and headers is adding 100+ whp to these cars.

 
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hm.. i want an american muscle car. fudge. i was hoping to get a supra TT after graduating college to work on, or a mid to late 90's nsx, but... now i'm not sure. a corvette z06 would be pretty nice. hahah eff, and i'm pretty sure i'd be able to afford one after college.

 
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ok, someone said something about ***** size with motors. i was thinking about this. what is more impressive? a giant ***** or a small one who knows how to make the girl *** harder? eh idk. im cool with my little d17 and my plans for it.

 
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I have driven many cars with 300+ HP and I still would rather have a Honda...I have many close friends with V8's and they are ALWAYS having problems and issues...Not to mention that they are constantly bitching about gas prices...My girlfriend even has a new Mustang GT and it has already been to the dealership with many problems...American muscle just means more headache down the road if you like it or not....It has always impressed me to see a smaller engine outperform/be more reliable than any 300-400+ V8...Just my opinion

 
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A giant ***** will make the girl *** harder.Ask a girl..They were just probably making you feel better. They also like the doggie style with the thumb in their butt.OH and your also a sick fvcker for thinking about giant and small penises.LOL

 
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search for posts by gearbox.....and he has 100whp. stock engines are reliable. Modded honda engines are as unreliable as anything else (mainly because they are modified by idiots).

 
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I have had 130whp with my civic for aout 3 years with 108,000 miles and it has never had one problem...I drive the **** out of the poor car and it has been reliable as it was the day I bought..I wouldn't take one persons "bad luck" with his/her car and make a generalization towards a whole company..That's a little foolish...Honda has always had a reputation of making great cars and yes, you will come across some "lemons" and cars that have more problems than others with any car company. But american car companies have never really been dependable for many years...All with bad track records as far as quality is concerned...Is it nice to have a ton of power??? Of coarse!!! But what's more important, high HP/TQ #'s or knowing your car will be able to last before you have the chance to pay it off?

 
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OWNED

 
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hp/l king is s2000 hands down.... and that's n/a offcourse!

 
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doesn't matter,it's still fvckin slow

 
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I do not doubt that such numbers can be reached. However when you take a small engine and a light car is it not relative as a big v8 and a big car. You really do not need 9billion hp to get good numbers from an import like the v8 guys do. Besides you are on an import forum and trashing imports for v8 domestics its not going to generate a postive reply. No matter what american car comes out I personally just do not like them no matter what its really my preferrence as yours and hemiboy is domestics........ no problem its cool but some times its more than just stright line speed or the amount of hp its the enjoyment of driving the car. I must say I have had more fun in my under powered cars then my over powered ones.

 
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I just like the new small block chevy motors. I really don't think that the weight is relevant since the new Si weighs 2800lbs and the Z06 weighs 3100. I doubt that you need 9billion more HP to move an extra 300lbs (that's with all power, leather, navigation, and 19x13 inch rims and tires in the back.) I actually don't like most chevy's at all. I traded my blazer for my current civic. For commuting and fuel economy, you absolutely can't beat a foreign car. For performance, you really can't beat vipers, cobras, GT40s and corvettes.

 
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anyone read up on the new Turbo Ecotec motor GM is putting in the Pontiac Solstice?

2.0L 260 hp and 260 tq. Small turbo, makes boost at 1700 RPM, and makes a full 20 psi at 2500 RPM.

Now that is awesome. The old ecotec blocks were good for 1400 hp. They redesigned this one pretty much from the bottom up for better power, better strength, and better fuel economy. They are now using a direct injection system that nets a 5% increase in power and a 2% increase in fuel economy.

Not bad for a domestic car, right? SRT4 killer.