dre2600

Who's idea was it to post a topic like this on a Civic forum? I mean, what did you think was going to happen, that people here were going to give both cars their fair due and reach rational conclusions about different respective points of Honda vs Ford.

I'll play Devil's advocate too, because I'm picking up my new Mazda3 in an hour from the Mazda dealership and the car's chasis is being used by Ford for their new Focus and runs a variant of their Duratec23 engine. Fords aren't all crap, earlier on they've had some quality control issues, esp. on the Focus that were highly publicised, but I don't think that those issues are representative of all Focii. My ex-g/f has had a Focus wagon now (ZX-W is it?) for about 3 years and she bought it used and shes had yet to have a problem, any recall issues they just fixed whilst they were changing her oil and it wasn't any sort of bother.

Engine-wise, the Focus isn't a bad car, and the fact that their Duratec23 (and 20) block have more displacement than our Civics means that you can get some pretty impressive gains out of them, especially w. FI (w.out having to wait until 4000rpm for your turbo to fully spool). Also, outfits like Cosworth have done impressive things with their block as mentioned above. Also, Ford doesn't just make Focii and despite over-rating figures on some Mustangs you can't tell me that the new Ford GT isn't sex on wheels and the Shelby concept they've put out doesn't look half bad either. Not to mention the new Mustangs, which just got another kick up in terms of HP/Tq.

Handling-wise the Focus can hold it's own and the new platform they've come up w. (used on NA Mazda3/Volvo S40 and the Euro Focus (which we may or may not see here) has an impressive rear multilink setup and good rigidity, I've seen vids of the new 3 competing against previous gen Civic Si's and it just eats them up in the corners.

In terms of quality, they -are- getting better and it seems that the quality on their Taurus and Focus lines is extermely inferior to their truck line, which from I've seen has decent quality (anf forms the core of Ford's business).

This isn't to say that Hondas aren't good cars. They're fuel efficient and the VTEC is good for when you need it w.out needing to lug around a larger displacement block w. your everywhere you go, but having to constantly rev the car about 5000rpm before you've got enough power to pass someone can be trying at times and earlier higher-revving engines that required constant 'tap-dancing' perpetually changing gears can be a little trying. Handling-wise, they're good too, but I think the current gen Civic represents a step-back in the handling department, even the RSX's handling isn't as up to snuff as earlier cars. Especially on the Civics the MacPhersons in the front wasn't the best move.

Quality, high-revving technology, respectable handling, yes, thats Honda. But their record for quality isn't a good reason to give us shoddy warranties, and Ford's lack of quality seems to have prodded them towards improving theirs a bit.

Its a really tough call to make a definitive choice I'd say, just because whilst Ford seems to be improving, Honda just keeps using what works again and again, the K-series is impressive, but in all truth the D-series has been around for dog's years now and hasn't fundamentally changed, Honda can just sit happy in their dominant position, but meanwhile Ford has to innovate in order to keep it's market share and I'd like to think that it has done that well (new Mustang, S40/3/EuroFocus/C1 platform, GT, etc.).

SIinthesky

We will be putting my friends focus on the dyno here soon....I will let you guys know what it does. Before we built the engine and did the intake mani the car put down 167hp at 5400rpm thats when it backfired and fried the rings. It redlines at 6700rpm It put down 132 torque(dont remember the rpm) I'm looking forward to seeing what it does with the motor built and the other mods we've done....I don't like the focus except for when I put my own sweat and blood into it.

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

if at any point you feel you are losing the argument, you can quickly point out these few words:

ford focus, most recalls in the history of cars, EVER.

(13 recalls, and not for stupid stuff, but serious issues, like wheels falling off, throttle getting stuck, airbag deploying on it's own, airbags starting on fire, etc)

thom

which car keeps its value?

duhh.........civic!

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

http://www.automotive.com/2000/49/fo...lls/40152.html

http://www.automotive.com/2000/49/fo...lls/40153.html

http://www.automotive.com/2000/49/fo...lls/40151.html

http://www.automotive.com/2000/49/fo...lls/40150.html

http://www.automotive.com/2001/49/fo...lls/42634.html

http://www.automotive.com/2001/49/fo...lls/42636.html

http://www.automotive.com/2001/49/fo...lls/42635.html

scatman

iTrader: (22)

i think ford is fvcking gay.....they circled the problem. <<period

Keet

Wow, devil's advocates, you guys are some help! We're supposed to cough up good points, we can't even handle that simple job!

No one mentioned that Honda makes motors for everything - snowmobiles, boats, motorcycles, lawnmowers, snowblowers, pressure washers, you name it. It's tried and tested, they know what they're doing.

The S2000 has the most HP per cylinder than any other normally aspirated engine in the world. If it were a turbo charged V8 just imagine the *** it would kick.

...and ontop of that no one can deny that Honda is reliable, efficient, holds its value well, has quality built into it. The Civic has been top selling, highly competative, and very versatile in its purpose (you have riced-out Civics, street-racing Civics, family Civics, sporty outdoor Civics... luxury Civics *grins*).

Ever wonder why Honda doesn't need purchase incentives like free oil changes or 0% financing to sell its cars?

I'm sorry, I just cringe each time I see a Ford Fiesta. But I won't knock Ford here, not my place to say.

jiggerachi

iTrader: (4)

I'll play the other side of the fence also...

While I love my civic, it looks good, its reliable, gets good gas mileage, istn really all that slow for having a crappy engine, handles pretty good for having a crappy suspension setup...I still drive my Miata everyday because its every bit as reliable, gets just as good gas mileage, & handles a HELL of a lot better than even a modified 7thgen...in stock form, & is 10 years old, still on all factory suspension/engine.

So...while honda makes damn good cars, theyre not the only ones.

jiggerachi

iTrader: (4)

The only thing Ford did for the Foci's performance, is let Mazda do it for them

The first generation(before they used the Mazda 3's suspension) was the worst handling car ive ever driven, I was scared to even take it over 80mph, and it only got worse over time.

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

i personally think the import vs domestic debate is the stupidest thing ever. you really cant compare honda to ford. or focus to civic. these are all different animals. if you look at the overall honda line vs the ford line, its like apples to oranges.

i mean look at ford, not only is their general lineup more broad (sedans, coupes, pickups, suvs, convertibles, vans/minivans, and station wagons and then the commercial vehicle lines). honda does not have such a range. honda has motorcycles and portable motor lines though (lawnmowers, generators etc.). and look at the price range of just ford. you have the focus thats very economy starting at 14k and it goes all the way to over 200k with the GT, and i can guarantee you the GT is sold out before they even release it to the public. whats honda have? economy civic to the acura NSX. NSX might be a great car, but no one buys them.

then still, ford has a number of marquis under their belt ranging in levels of luxury (ford, mazda, jaguar, mercury, aston martin, land rover, volvo) while honda only has honda and acura. ford also has an internal performance division (svt), mugen is not directly affiliated with honda, its a separate company. but ford has saleen, panoz, shelby and how ever many others that use ford as their starting point. and thats not even taking into consideration tuners like cosworth.

so sure, on an apples to apples sort of comparisson, the stock civic might be better in some respects than the stock focus. but as a whole, the battle isnt even close.

anyone that says ford is crap is a fool.

D17thgen

iTrader: (1)

the civic made the top 10 selling cars and one of the safest coupe/sedans i beleive? their superior in certain classes (safety, reliability, affordable, selling, etc). i think you can find those sources at car and driver and/or motor trend.

RangerMan

iTrader: (1)

Ford is known for this: They build a vehicle that will DO a job or function
without any thrills, like satisfactory, usually get away with the fact it can compete. The focus is a good car, it handles great and is quick. However, most of the cars Ford produces under its own line are not appealing, except the mustang and mercury marauder.


Trucks..well thats a different story:

D17thgen

iTrader: (1)

oh yeah, forgot to add in about the roll-overs from the "explorer" from FORD

MrDibbs19

forget about focuses.... can you say
Fix
Or
Repair
Daily...

Dishwasher

I drove my friends slocus 2.0 spi manual, that thing is slow as dirt, like way slower than my vic. i think they have 90whp. i just hate the way the freaking blinker sounds...

solar

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=JP375]. Resale is only high because of this "aura" that Honda has built up around itself. Same reason a pair of Bose speakers sells for about 3 times what they are worth.[QUOTE]

The "Aura" you're talking about is called quality.

Hondas resale is high because quality is high, I own 2 Fords along with my 03 EP3 and unless I was buying a truck or the new GT40 I wouldn't buy another Ford. The interiors are junky and tacky, the 4 cylinder engines sound like they're coming apart all the time, plus all the recalls.

Compare the number of JD Powers complants against Honda to Ford, and i know you can read, so you should see something in a different light. Of course you'll say that Ford makes more cars and blah blah blah, but JD Powers is averaged out.

Gangsta Dave

Found
On
Road
Dead

ArthurBrazil

ugly car .

JP375

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=solar][QUOTE=JP375]. Resale is only high because of this "aura" that Honda has built up around itself. Same reason a pair of Bose speakers sells for about 3 times what they are worth.Well first of all, I'm just a Honda guy trying to help out the Ford side. I can't stand any Ford product, past or present. I believe Hyundai recieved a JD power award for highest initial quality. Does that mean they make superior cars? People are willing to pay more because, be it percieved or factual, they think that a Honda is going to last longer and be more reliable. This may or may not be true. In fact its very vehicle specific. In general I would agree, Hondas are more reliable, but modern domestics are quite reliable themselves. If you have ever owned a Toyota you know that their reliability will make a Honda look like a pile of crap. Hondas don't appeal to everyone, they are pretty damn boring and lifeless, but to those who love them they bring alot of joy. Myself included. Ford knows its market and makes cars to fit those peoples wants and needs. The subject of whether or not one car is better is completely subjective. Everyone should stop arguing about it. Make peace with the domestic folk. Don't like it, don't drive it.

phatcyclist

iTrader: (2)

I've had more than half a dozen friends keep Civics and other hondas past the 200K mark, some of them were not even cared for that well.


Maybe compared to OLD domestics, but I still see more newer domestics being worked on at my friends shop than I do imports, and I see more of them broken down on the side of the road.


Toyotas are about as reliable as Hondas, I see more hondas making it to 200K than I see Toyotas.


If you mean they sell more SUVs than everyone than yes they do, well maybe chevy can take that crown, but half of Fords line up is SUVs.


Styling is subjective, track records with quality in mind are pretty concrete. Look how many people have had problems with domestics/imports as a whole, theres a pretty obvious trend there. The people talking on internet forums are only going to give you thier jaded view. Imports are way more reliable, and thats why import companies have more more used car "Best Bets" than domestic companies.

Your post was jsut the closest to my window, so I picked it apart ALOT. Don't mean to be an *** or anything, but I work on cars alot, and aside from a few guys I know with old chevy trucks with 350s in them (best engine Ford ever made, lol) I don't see many domestics having the same long lasting ability that Hondas and Toyotas mainly have.

drunkenmagnum

iTrader: (5)

maybe someone already said this b/c i dont feel like reading all the post but svt's answer to makeing a hot rod is to put a blower on it. the new focas, lightning, and cobra as you know all have blowers. on the other hand honda does everything n/a and puts a little more thought into it and doesnt just focas on strieght line performance. dont get me wrong, i would drive the wheels off of a new cobra or gt40 or lightning but who has the money for the gas those things require.

QBoi

iTrader: (3)

I've had my civic for 3 years now, no problems whatsoever and still getting 28+ mpg a tank run to E. My friends focus (who actually wanted me to "race" him in my "ricemobile", has had severe engine problems and is 2 years old

S2000man01

iTrader: (1)

hondas do, in general, last longer than fords. it's a rule of thumb, though there are exceptions.

the reason for this is simple. quality of build from the factory. the tolerances for error are far lesser on an import than a domestic, and the overall build quality is better on a honda vs a ford. this isn't opinion, it's simple fact. granted, domestics are starting to go in the right direction, however, they are still far behind the overall quality of the imports.

ironically enough, we have 2 americans to thank for the build quality of our imports.

dre2600

I'm surprised everyone is harking on Ford history and in particular North American Ford history.

No mention is made of the new chasis design w. Mazda, Ford GT, new Mustang or performance offerings (ie: SVT) being offered at present. I think present-day direction of a company trying to preserve itself is worth mention...

jameStype

i like the fit and trim of the honda. its the best looking in the economy car class. if i want to step it up...i'd just by one of the new pimp rsx rides...drool.

02boostlessCIV

I got good news for you guys. My buddy (Focus owner) and I will actually settle the score on the black top. We will race on thursday. Ill tell you how it went. Meanwhile: 2001 Ford focus mods, CAI AEM, OBX headers full exhaust no cat, with some performance ignition. 2002 Honda civic mods, SRI AEM, Full exhaust, no cat, obx headers, VAFCII, Lighweight flywheel and excedey stage1 clutch.

cdmx

iTrader: (7)

HAHAHAHahahahaha Leave it to the man..

orion_squall

Why people keep using Focus being cheaper as an argument??

Ford focus is not cheaper than Civic in price. You can get a Civic sedan from 13160$ and you get ford Focus sedan from 14460$. Just check Ford.com and Honda .com and compare

I hate to state the obvious, but Focus is obviously not cheaper in price. Therefore whoever think they pay less and get a better car might need to re-think.

Why Civic is consider better than Focus? because it is cheaper so with even slightly better in quality, Civic still wins consummers. Period.

Arith

F - IX
O - OR
R - REPAIR
D - DAILY

my g/f told me that, anyways... i never liked them and the style is bland, but some of those models (zx3/svt) will own any civic, including the sI.

I'd still choose a honda over a ford.